Section pending deletion

[TheGrandmaster]

@Kodiak:
'lazy tactic'? It's the quickest and easiest. We also have something to learn from them, since they have to deal with people every day. They've learnt that spending their own time trying to sift through evidence from multiple locations and spend a good few hours finding out exactly who was to blame, who wasn't, or who was 'egging it on', is a waste of their own time.
They can find out who they were with, and make some educated guesses along with a channel log or two to sort it out swiftly.

We've been way too nice to RoT for as long as we can remember. I permitted the clan section here when it was clanbase, not the official forums (since a while after that we realised and started the thought process, it's quite slow to talk to everyone in admin). I've spent countless hours dealing with most of RoT. I've wasted my time arguing pointless arguments with several of them, and many more hours dealing with most of them being inappropriate wherever they are.

In regards to 'by association' - if you're with a person every day, and you know they're being an idiot, you should stop them rather than being the bystander. The bystander is not innocent and is passively (sometimes actively) advocating an act if nothing is done against it. Last I knew, they were banned from Quakenet twice, and Espernet once due to racism and channel takeovers. You would've thought they'd get the drift first time around, but obviously not. They have not learnt, and they will quite possibly never learn, how to behave themselves in the public (or even semi-private) environment of the internet.

p.s. would like it if they did learn, but they don't seem to have any intention of doing so

@Pulchritude:
We're almost always democratic amongst the admins. We're just not so democratic with you (RoT) in recent times due to it being wasted on such individuals.

[Pulchritude]

Since you're quoting for Kodiak, I'll just touch point on a few parts of your paragraph. He can get the rest.

@Kodiak:
'lazy tactic'? It's the quickest and easiest. We also have something to learn from them, since they have to deal with people every day. They've learnt that spending their own time trying to sift through evidence from multiple locations and spend a good few hours finding out exactly who was to blame, who wasn't, or who was 'egging it on', is a waste of their own time.
They can find out who they were with, and make some educated guesses along with a channel log or two to sort it out swiftly.

I was g-lined when I was asleep. That's a great "educated guess". I guess the people banned in #Komrade also all deserved it too, huh?

We've been way too nice to RoT for as long as we can remember. I permitted the clan section here when it was clanbase, not the official forums (since a while after that we realised and started the thought process, it's quite slow to talk to everyone in admin). I've spent countless hours dealing with most of RoT. I've wasted my time arguing pointless arguments with several of them, and many more hours dealing with most of them being inappropriate wherever they are.

We got our own network just so you wouldn't be bothered by us, which has proven useful since there is hardly any more RoT members on QuakeNet. Also, you've spent "countless hours" dealing with other people of the community. That's kinda the job of an administrator.

In regards to 'by association' - if you're with a person every day, and you know they're being an idiot, you should stop them rather than being the bystander. The bystander is not innocent and is passively (sometimes actively) advocating an act if nothing is done against it. Last I knew, they were banned from Quakenet twice, and Espernet once due to racism and channel takeovers. You would've thought they'd get the drift first time around, but obviously not. They have not learnt, and they will quite possibly never learn, how to behave themselves in the public (or even semi-private) environment of the internet.

How would YOU know how people act when you aren't even there? As far as I know your spies are hardly there either. Rofl@banned from Quakenet twice, and Espernet once due to racism and channel takeovers." You really have NO idea. We've never been banned from QuakeNet or EsperNet for those things. Nice job though.

@Pulchritude:
We're almost always democratic amongst the admins. We're just not so democratic with you (RoT) in recent times due to it being wasted on such individuals.

Must've been very democratic to ban YD and T_G from the forums for something completely unrelated. Do you remember their ban reason? "EsperNet behavior". They got banned for doing something on a network that isn't even RELATED to Ace of Spades. Nice.

"recent times" Loooool. You've NEVER been democratic with RoT. The only people who have been that are on the staff team are Mikuli and Danhezee.

[TheGrandmaster]

G-lined while asleep, that's slightly unfortunate - but as said, it's a great time saver.

Spending countless hours on people that do not deserve it, is not the job of an administrator. Our role is to keep things clean where possible and try to keep the community active and contributing - I am saying that RoT has done nothing to help that.

I spoke to an Espernet op a while back, and those were some of the details they told me.

I have seen through logs and heard what goes on in RoT channels. My point was generalised to all relations where there are bystanders involved. The racism and general talk in the old #RoT was frankly disgusting, and that was just when I was in there.

I find it pretty hilarious you are picking out our exact words on the banning of YD` and That_Guy. The Espernet behaviour gave us another excuse to rid them from the community. They have not contributed at all, only spammed/hacked/argued/(possibly)DoS'd.

Democratic? hmm, you'd be surprised. I've spent too much of my time talking over small things.

[Pulchritude]

G-lined while asleep, that's slightly unfortunate - but as said, it's a great time saver.

Should've figured you would say that. You DO have that mindset afterall.

Spending countless hours on people that do not deserve it, is not the job of an administrator. Our role is to keep things clean where possible and try to keep the community active and contributing - I am saying that RoT has done nothing to help that.

RoT has contributed more than you know. We've been offered to help Ace of Spades, and HAVE helped Ace of Spades.

I spoke to an Espernet op a while back, and those were some of the details they told me.

That IRC op doesn't know shit apparently.

I have seen through logs and heard what goes on in RoT channels. My point was generalised to all relations where there are bystanders involved. The racism and general talk in the old #RoT was frankly disgusting, and that was just when I was in there.

You DO realize that people do that so you stop spying on them and leave, since that's the only reason why you were there.

I find it pretty hilarious you are picking out our exact words on the banning of YD` and That_Guy. The Espernet behaviour gave us another excuse to rid them from the community. They have not contributed at all, only spammed/hacked/argued/(possibly)DoS'd.

Hey at least you're admitting that it's an excuse to ban them. I'd trust T_G and YD over ANY operator in #AoS, or Ace of Spades community. A lot of people used to hate us because of the negativity that people give us, yet once they get to know us, they realize we're pretty chill.

Democratic? hmm, you'd be surprised. I've spent too much of my time talking over small things.

Yep, go ahead and avoid that with your generic response.

[TheGrandmaster]

It may be generic, but it's true.
I know you guys are 'chill' in private, the casual use of racist remarks is just part of who you are as a group.
Logs show it's not just when I'm there.

You are able to predict and to trust them because they know you. They know what is against the rules/annoying to us, yet they continue to stretch the boundaries, hence why they are banned. Espernet activities were the 'last straw' if you like.

I remember making a deal with Reuben ages back, that if they stopped behaving badly we would consider them a clean slate. That deal broke off within a week due to their behaviour. I had spent a good couple of hours into the night talking it over with RoT, it was a waste of time. Not the only occasion either.

This topic is about removing the RoT section, not removing them all from the community. Nevertheless, those who continue to misbehave will naturally get banned.

[USABxBOOYO]

While I haven't always been in favor of administrative against RoT and its affiliated members, I do believe this particular action is justified. I've personally dealt with and hung out in the RoT channels before, and while it is usually alright most of the time, some of the things that go on in there are things we do not want to be advertised on the front page of the Ace of Spades forums. Having a clan section means that we think that your clan is worthy to be recognized on the front page. If your members repeatedly break rules and act up elsewhere, well, I hate to say it but we don't want to advertise that. Please bear in mind, also, that this isn't that harsh of a punishment and certainly cannot be compared to the mass G-Lining of #Komrades (The one I was also caught up in). This is because we are not actually banning you from the forums, we're just removing your clan section.

Please do not label these actions as "It was done because we're RoT". I know you guys have used that before in attempts to defame administrative action, but the fact of the matter is that that phrase is entirely untrue. Everything the administrative team does is for a reason. We believed that your actions do not reflect well on the Ace of Spades community, so we stopped being a proponent of your clan and removed its section.

Also, I'd just like to point out that your clan section was really never that active anyway, so I couldn't imagine this being too bad. It isn't like you guys post important stuff here everyday. Actually, the only thing I've seen in this section that is in the least bit useful is the roster, Steam group information, IRC information, and how to join.

[ReubenMcHawk]

In all honesty though, this decision seems a bit retroactive, given we haven't done organized griefing (or hell, organized anything) since before this forum was even made.

So tell me, would I be lying if I claimed to have seen a chat log of a "private" discussion where you personally seek out and drive the point of getting back to this business? You have not changed, only gone a little inactive for the while. You might remember that you guys were specifically invited to join the board when it started out as a clan community - we weren't any less knowing of your "past" than what we are now, but the site has now long since been official, and you're a part of the public face of the game.

If you do, however, stand behind your argument that you have "changed for the better", the matter might just make it back to the discussion table.

If you're referring to the same chatlog I am, we had set up in #rotlot-meeting in order to have a fake (read:bad-looking) conversation to leak. Believe it or not, that's what happened.

It may be generic, but it's true.
I know you guys are 'chill' in private, the casual use of racist remarks is just part of who you are as a group.
Logs show it's not just when I'm there.

Oh well, we're not that PC. We try to keep it away from you guys (or we at least recommend it).

You are able to predict and to trust them because they know you. They know what is against the rules/annoying to us, yet they continue to stretch the boundaries, hence why they are banned. Espernet activities were the 'last straw' if you like.

We have people like Enari and Greasemonkey who hang out in #RoT. They're not "evil terrible people" like us, but they're actually cool with us. A lot of people who like us are people who used to hate us, before they actually met us and gave us a fair opinion. Hell, we even let DeathEnhanced, someone we're basically known for hating, into our chat, because he joins, doesn't spy on us, and contributes to conversation.

I remember making a deal with Reuben ages back, that if they stopped behaving badly we would consider them a clean slate. That deal broke off within a week due to their behaviour. I had spent a good couple of hours into the night talking it over with RoT, it was a waste of time. Not the only occasion either.

You notice how few RoT members you see on Quakenet anymore? It's because we got our own network, that way we would be out of your hair, for the most part. Pretty much the only RoT members that even hang out in #AoS anymore are Kanye, Pulchritude and I, and we've barely caused any trouble.
And I'm sorry that you think talking to us is a waste of time. Not to seem rude, but having to deal with users with complaints is part of being an admin. It shouldn't be a "waste of time". Hell, I've had to deal with rambo on our network to a point of ridiculousness, and I still do it.

Just curious, is it just the section, or are all RoT-related things being removed?

[Defaulter]

"Just curious, is it just the section, or are all RoT-related things being removed?"

As was clearly stated by mikuli in the OP "RoT forum subsection" nothing else.

[ReubenMcHawk]

Hm, so were I to make a topic in another appropriate place about how to connect to the network, it wouldn't be closed?

[Defaulter]

Hm, so were I to make a topic in another appropriate place about how to connect to the network, it wouldn't be closed?

yes it would,

This subsection is being closed for advertising a greifing/hacking orientated clan. If you post the same stuff sumwhere else, it will probably be taken down.

Furthermore re-posting banned content, is against the rules.

[NotThatGuy]

This is just a guess, but I think...they...hate us. might be false idk, just a guess

also you can ban me again now.

Edit: i love you Stack <3

[ReubenMcHawk]

Hm, so were I to make a topic in another appropriate place about how to connect to the network, it wouldn't be closed?

yes it would,

This subsection is being closed for advertising a greifing/hacking orientated clan. If you post the same stuff sumwhere else, it will probably be taken down.

Furthermore re-posting banned content, is against the rules.

Again, those nasty generalizations about things you know not of.

I was asking the actual admins, but what I mean is, were another clan to join our IRC network, would them posting about how to join the network be forbidden? From what I understand, they're not banning RoT, just removing the forum.

[Defaulter]

Hm, so were I to make a topic in another appropriate place about how to connect to the network, it wouldn't be closed?

yes it would,

This subsection is being closed for advertising a greifing/hacking orientated clan. If you post the same stuff sumwhere else, it will probably be taken down.

Furthermore re-posting banned content, is against the rules.

Again, those nasty generalizations about things you know not of.

I was asking the actual admins, but what I mean is, were another clan to join our IRC network, would them posting about how to join the network be forbidden? From what I understand, they're not banning RoT, just removing the forum.

Dear lord, quit implying this is some kind of conspiracy.

The rules state that reposting removed content is not okay. Take that up with mik.

[SeriousSimFR]

I vote for close rather than deletion. And possibly rename the thread 'what you shouldn't do here' and stick it.

After all RoT is the oldest clan still active on AoS.

[ReubenMcHawk]

Dear lord, quit implying this is some kind of conspiracy.

The rules state that reposting removed content is not okay. Take that up with mik.

Look up a term called "reductio ad absurdum", it'll sound familiar. I never said it was a conspiracy, I'm just saying that we're not being banned, it's what mikuli told me. And reposting the guide isn't reposting banned content, since we're not being banned for connecting to a network.

And I can't connect to IRC atm, but I'd like to reiterate a point once more:
We haven't done anything close to organized griefing (or hell, organized anything) since ages ago, before that forum even existed. We've settled down now, we're a social clan if anything. We've made efforts to leave you alone, including getting our own IRC network. I don't see any logical reason for this decision.