So you want to balance all weapons forever?

[MegaDeuce]

How do you tell for sure if a weapon is imbalanced? It's simple. Just have all the servers collect statistics on who's using what weapon, then send that data somewhere so it can be collected. If all the weapons are perfectly balanced, each one should be used almost exactly as much as the others.



If one is used less than average (*cough shotty*), it needs a buff. If one is used more than average it needs a nerf. Each map will favor different weapons, but the usage statistics from all the servers should be measuring overall weapon balance.

Then again, think about this: SHOULD all the weapons be balanced?

[Fluttershy]

But the problem is it doesnt take into account certain factors. If we, for example, only took the statisics of arena servers, wed probably get 50% smg, 45% shotgun, and 5% rifle. Or zombies, wed have 95%smg, 2% shotgun, and 3% rifle.

Maps
servers
gamemods

Those all contribute to weapon usage. This really isnt that good of how balanced the weapons are.

[ChaosTLW]

Well, this wouldn't work, because some weapons are more noob-friendly than others. The SMG, per example, is more user friendly than the rifle, because you can just spam bullets in the enemy's direction.

[ThisFrickinSite]

this also doesnt work because i am very bipolar when it comes to choosing weapons in this game, mainly because they are very balanced (see what i did there?), so i will sometimes use the smg more thatn the semi, switch back to the semi and then beck to the smg for the rest of the while. later on another server, i will use shotgun the whole time. It would be alright for some hard statistics, but never for changing the game.

[MegaDeuce]

If you get stats from every server, then you're taking into account every game mode and every map being played. If the shotgun (for example) is only used half as much on average, that's averaging out servers where it gets used alot (arena mode), n00b friendly maps where people prefer the SMG (Pinpoint), and servers where it's almost never used (big sniper-happy maps like Gen). You have to compromise to meet the balancing needs of all the servers as much as possible.

[Speshul]

Doesn't this assume that all the maps being played are normally distributed with regards to each weapon's usage?

[Leonzable]

The problem is I choose rifle and shotgun even though I know the smg is best but I just enjoy playing with them

[HaloWarLord711]

you want to balance all the weapons?fine,take all the guns out of the game and make it only spades and nades.

[Tek2]

you want to balance all the weapons?fine,take all the guns out of the game and make it only spades and nades.

Spades are op, only infinite nades.

[MegaDeuce]

The problem is I choose rifle and shotgun even though I know the smg is best but I just enjoy playing with them

Yah, it's a game so balancing the weapons means making them equally fun to use :)

Doesn't this assume that all the maps being played are normally distributed with regards to each weapon's usage?

Yes, but all the variations from map to map should average out to the expected weapon numbers if you picked a server at random.

If I had to guess

Shotgun: 10%
SMG: 50%
Semi: 40%

Are the numbers you'd get right now.


Shotgun: 33.3%
SMG: 33.3%
Semi: 33.3%

Are the numbers you'd expect if all the weapons were balanced.

[Fluttershy]

Shotgun: 33.3%
SMG: 33.3%
Semi: 33.3%

Are the numbers you'd expect if all the weapons were balanced.

Thatd be assuming that the map and gamemode would also support all weapons equally, which most definitally isnt the case. If all 3 weapons are balenced, servers would rarely ever have a solid 1/3rd ratio for each weapon mainly because the map theyre playing would encourage the use of a certain weapon more than others. This is the case currently with shotgun (which despite the massive amount of complaining, is still more than viable), almost none of the maps support the shotgun without user modification. And god forbid people actually build and dig in aos. Because noone does that, noone uses the shotgun except in conditions that naturally favor the shotgun without having to do any extra work IE arena.

[MegaDeuce]

Shotgun: 33.3%
SMG: 33.3%
Semi: 33.3%

Are the numbers you'd expect if all the weapons were balanced.

Yeah the shotgun is basically only supported in arena servers... If you buffed it enough so that it could compete with the rifle and the SMG on the average map, would it even still feel like a shotgun? But maybe you could make some modifications that would make it so much fun you wouldn't mind getting pwned while using it...

[TheOperator]

How about we leave rifle the way it is now(so all of the noobs will stop complaining about getting sniped) but bring back the shotgun and SMG to .70 status?

Smg couldnt kill you in two shots unless they were both to the head and it has a bit less accuracy, while the shotgun could reliably one-shot anybody stupid enough to get within 30 blocks of you while still being able to hold its own (with an extremely good player) against SMG users at mid range.

If you buffed it enough so that it could compete with the rifle and the SMG on the average map, would it even still feel like a shotgun?

Yes, because only in VIDEOGAMELAND do shotguns lose all of their lethality beyond the range of smelling somebodies fart, but considering AoS shotgun is now load of crap thats a pretty accurate representation of how much damage it should be dealing (thanks ben, the shotty was fine till you listened to all of the whiny CoD noobs who thinks getting killed in 3-4 shots at 60 or so blocks away constitutes getting "sniped")

[MegaDeuce]

You make a really damn good point. Check out this pattern at 40 Yards (60 blocks in AoS land):

Here are some patterns from my back-up gun. A Remington 870 with 3" chamber (I lengthened the forcing cone).

These are 40 yd patterns, the circles are 30" diameter for reference:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2ynncx2.jpg

This real shotgun fired its pellets in a cone that was like 0.60 degrees wide... at that rate of spread it would hit fog distance with a cloud of pellets less than two blocks wide.

From this, I feel that the shotgun should shoot a narrow cone of pellets, but the damage each pellet does should drop off with increased distance, until they do zero damage at ~50 blocks.