Sidearms please! (all classes)

[Gorman]

I can tell from your response that you have no idea what you are talking about..
Have you ever played a shooter other than aos?

All of your arguments make no sense in the context that I'm talking..

Yes, the sidearm is much weaker than the primary weapon. that's the point.
Why wouldn't I continue to attack when my clip is empty, if I have already taken the majority of my enemie's health, and I have a sidearm, I will use it and I will win the engagement.. If I break off to reload, sure I can pick up the engagement again, but with a sidearm there is no need.

Ok, I meant gameplay videos, I mistyped.. obviously a montage is heavily edited, but you will still see what I'm talking about in one, so it's still relevant to my point.

I understand that you do apparently not like to use sidearms, if that's the case, don't use it.
I've been playing fps games since Wolf3D.. I definitely don't have issues with ammo management.. but there are definitely times when I am in a ffirefight and my magazine or clip is empty, there is a ~25% hp enemy in front of me, and no cover to reload behind. Let's say I just killed 5 people and now I am about to finish off the last guy.. how does ammo management even come into it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtUBM8KRxFM
Watch that video from around 1:15 - 1:30 to see what I'm talking about.. perhaps we're simply mis-communicating.

About your video: The player misses more than half his shots, and then swaps to pistol even though he has 7 ammo left. I think this perfectly illustrates my point that pistols are only useful to compensate against poor ammo management and poor shooting ability.

I have played many other shooters, the differences is that I don't think that AoS should become a generic mindless shooter implementing features just because everyone else has them.

If you run out of ammo, then obviously ammo management is an issue. Don't think that I will simply accept that sidearms are necessary because you played Wolf3d...

If you killed 5 guys and forgot to reload before the 6th then it isn't my problem, perhaps you should think "Oh I'm low on ammo I should reload before engaging".


I am not a sprayer so I never have this problem. I usually reload as soon as possible, which is often after 3 or 4 kills (which is less than half a clip - semi user). I don't think I have ever been in a situation where I am forced to fight 11 enemies at once - there is always cover I can duck behind to reload. Besides that, I think my tactic of managing my ammo smartly and aiming for the head is just as legitimate as your tactic of spraying and praying. I don't think anything should be added to explicitly give an advantage to 1 tactic.

[tunaspirit]

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/USP_Match
Might I suggest this weapon?
Considering you are not fighting Combine this pistol should do more damage.

[Cyanyde]

Ok Gorman, I think it's safe to say we disagree.
I am trying to make a point to you, but you insist that no matter what is said, that it boils down to bad ammo management.
I've come to the conclusion that no matter what I say, you are going to continue to argue until your head explodes.

Either way, I still think it's a good idea, as do others. You may not want a sidearm, but you don't have to use it.

I mentioned Wolfenstein to establish that I have been playing these types of games since I was young.
I showed you that video so I could illustrate how the weapon is to be used effectively. (maybe he didn't want to waste the more powerful ammo that was in his magazine, when there could be other full health enemies left.. who knows)
And I hate to agree with you, but yes, it would be stupid to engage a 6th enemy without reloaded, unless of course said 6th enemy engages me before I have a chance to reload.. then what?

No matter how you look at it, a sidearm would add to the options available in a heated firefight. I'm not saying it's needed every time, hell I usually get a headshot and I use a rifle anyway, so it would also be useful to me at close to mid-range becsause my weapon is designed for long to mid-range encounters.. I'm sure I've just given you fuel for yet another useless and irrelevant argument but hey. That's what the Internets are for! :P

[Cyanyde]

Added a poll.. vote vote vote! :)

[Gorman]

Ok Gorman, I think it's safe to say we disagree.
I am trying to make a point to you, but you insist that no matter what is said, that it boils down to bad ammo management.
I've come to the conclusion that no matter what I say, you are going to continue to argue until your head explodes.

Either way, I still think it's a good idea, as do others. You may not want a sidearm, but you don't have to use it.

I mentioned Wolfenstein to establish that I have been playing these types of games since I was young.
I showed you that video so I could illustrate how the weapon is to be used effectively. (maybe he didn't want to waste the more powerful ammo that was in his magazine, when there could be other full health enemies left.. who knows)
And I hate to agree with you, but yes, it would be stupid to engage a 6th enemy without reloaded, unless of course said 6th enemy engages me before I have a chance to reload.. then what?

No matter how you look at it, a sidearm would add to the options available in a heated firefight. I'm not saying it's needed every time, hell I usually get a headshot and I use a rifle anyway, so it would also be useful to me at close to mid-range becsause my weapon is designed for long to mid-range encounters.. I'm sure I've just given you fuel for yet another useless and irrelevant argument but hey. That's what the Internets are for! :P

I don't give advantages to poor player simply because they are poor. Instead of looking for ways to excuse their lack of skill by adding sidearms so they never need to learn ammo management, they should just learn it.

I can never agree of any suggestion that's only purpose is the give players too lazy to learn to play properly an advantage.

I believe any suggestion to this effect is cancerous and degenerative.

[Build]

Handguns...

...give advantages to poor players

Yeah, thats about the gist of it. Unless you want to try to pull some sort of speed factor into this.

[KomradeKorakoff]

Pistol to bust someone's face. Thatit.

[Mio]

Make a sidearm that replace nades.

[BrosephRadson]

I don't give advantages to poor player simply because they are poor. Instead of looking for ways to excuse their lack of skill by adding sidearms so they never need to learn ammo management, they should just learn it.

I can never agree of any suggestion that's only purpose is the give players too lazy to learn to play properly an advantage.

I believe any suggestion to this effect is cancerous and degenerative.

So what youre saying is that being against more than 10 enemies at a time with little or no cover = bad ammo management? How are those two things even linked?

[Cyanyde]

I don't give advantages to poor player simply because they are poor. Instead of looking for ways to excuse their lack of skill by adding sidearms so they never need to learn ammo management, they should just learn it.

I can never agree of any suggestion that's only purpose is the give players too lazy to learn to play properly an advantage.

I believe any suggestion to this effect is cancerous and degenerative.

So what youre saying is that being against more than 10 enemies at a time with little or no cover = bad ammo management? How are those two things even linked?

I've been trying to figure that out for days now.. I don't think he even realizes that it doesn't make sense.

[MrChucklez]

I absolutely love this idea. I know that, Gorman and Coffee, you dont want much to change about Ace of Spades. (sorry if im wrong please no hate). but at some point, I think big changes are necessary. There are PLENTY of people who are not as good as you two are at playing the game and game ideas, including me. I'm not terrible but not great either. People who do not every day get 50 kdrs. If a pistol was added,it would have to be terrible, as to keep from using as a replacement for the shotgun at longer ranges, and also to make it the LAST weapon you want to use. But still i think this would make it a little bit easier for people who are not so great to fend for themselves, and, for people who are really good, to add a greater standard for being "really good". If your good at AoS getting 50 kdrs, then how can you not say that the game is too easy. If you had to kill yourself just to restrain from becoming bored, then well wouldn't you want an actual challenge?
Again please no hate. I totally respect your opinions, but i just disagree.

[Fluttershy]

I fail to see how giving players who arnt that good at ammo management a gun thats intentionally shitty is going to help them. Really I wish ben would implement a proper solution to getting more ammo in the field be it salvaging it from dead bodies, or a less radical streak reward prior to adding the guns he already said hed add. who knows, itd probably remove any reason for pistols existing in the first place. Although, i cant shake the feeling ben just likes trolling us with the notion of pistols and whatnot and not releasing them.

oh, and just use the shotty for now, it "reloads faster".

[Gorman]

I don't give advantages to poor player simply because they are poor. Instead of looking for ways to excuse their lack of skill by adding sidearms so they never need to learn ammo management, they should just learn it.

I can never agree of any suggestion that's only purpose is the give players too lazy to learn to play properly an advantage.

I believe any suggestion to this effect is cancerous and degenerative.

So what youre saying is that being against more than 10 enemies at a time with little or no cover = bad ammo management? How are those two things even linked?

Ok, this should be painfully obvious to you, but if you are out in the open, you DESERVE to die.

Why are you playing AoS and not using cover?


If you somehow got yourself in to the idiotic situation where you are fighting 10 enemies with little or no cover, then you have probably made a ton of mistakes already;
1. Not shooting enemies before approaching
2. Not using cover
3. Advancing without any regard for your team mates
4. Advancing without any regard for your enemy

Obviously this situation is impossible for any player to actually end up in, even if they purposefully act like a complete idiot this simply cannot happen.

[BrosephRadson]

Intel and enemy spawns are in the open. Must cap intel to win. Enemies die and respawn. There is a perfect, and rather common example of a situation in which a sidearm would be useful.

Ill say it again in this thread, you are a waste of time to talk to, therefore im done talkng to you. Learn how to read, please.

[billyHatcher]

I think the SMG needs more ammo but keep the 30-bullet clips.
I always find myself running out of ammo on a long life. Running out of ammo with the rifle is really hard unless you're a killing machine.
Just 30 more bullets would be great.