A small randomization in damage + Damage drop

[Paratrooper]

There is a large gap between 98 and 100 Health. Two hits with a rifle to the torso for 98, and three hits for 100. Who know that a very tiny scratch to health could make a difference.

The way I see it, there should be a small deviation in the damage dealt by guns. This would make their action a tad bit more unpredictable. A ±5 randomization should be fit for this.

They could also implement damage drop over a distance.
-0 to +5 at point blank
-1 to +4
-2 to +3
-3 to +2
-4 to +1
-5 to +0 at fog distance

Of course, rifle headshots should always be a one-hit kill. Probably increase base damage to 105.

EDIT: In addition, this would discourage sniping with the SMG at fog range, making is a far less efficient weapon at long-distance combat.

[Danqazmlp]

I like the idea.

[Paratrooper]

Of course, the ±change in damage could be anything, not just 5. It may be different values for different guns, too.

[Gorman]

No, I think this is pointless and will change the balance A LOT.

Randomized damage is one of the worst ideas that games ever came up with, it originates from dice games where there is no other way to represent battle. However we have a full 3d simulation, you can tell when you rolled a 1 on the "to hit" roll, because you MISSED. You can tell when your "to wound" roll was low, because you hit the body!

Randomization is an abstraction of aiming, shooting, of the game. We have aiming and shooting, so what is the point in randomization?

I don't see this adding anything to the game, except an increased luck factor.

[Paratrooper]

No, I think this is pointless and will change the balance A LOT.

Randomized damage is one of the worst ideas that games ever came up with, it originates from dice games where there is no other way to represent battle. However we have a full 3d simulation, you can tell when you rolled a 1 on the "to hit" roll, because you MISSED. You can tell when your "to wound" roll was low, because you hit the body!

Randomization is an abstraction of aiming, shooting, of the game. We have aiming and shooting, so what is the point in randomization?

I don't see this adding anything to the game, except an increased luck factor.

May as well remove the spread in the shotgun, smg and the rifle if we don't want randomization.

But then that would just be silly.

[ChaosTLW]

Damage drop? Yes
Damage randomization? No. Too random.

[MrHaaaaaaxFF]

No, I think this is pointless and will change the balance A LOT.

Randomized damage is one of the worst ideas that games ever came up with, it originates from dice games where there is no other way to represent battle. However we have a full 3d simulation, you can tell when you rolled a 1 on the "to hit" roll, because you MISSED. You can tell when your "to wound" roll was low, because you hit the body!

Randomization is an abstraction of aiming, shooting, of the game. We have aiming and shooting, so what is the point in randomization?

I don't see this adding anything to the game, except an increased luck factor.

This, hopefully will buff the shotgun up, and isn't that the thing we have looking for?
Acctually, i think the randomize here should be a little bit static(lol). Paratrooper, it would be like this:
+4/+5 at point blank
+3/+4
+2/+3
+1/+2
+1/+0
+0/-3 at fog distance
There you go, happy now Gorman?
The idea here is to randomize is less numbers. Less complicated, less HARDCORE coding, and quite balanced. Also make few more people happy *cough*TheOperator*cough*
So anyway, i support, but should be configured.

[Gorman]

May as well remove the spread in the shotgun, smg and the rifle if we don't want randomization.

But then that would just be silly.

No, I actually think that the removal of spread on the SMG is a valid suggestion.

Firstly let me say that semi and smg when compared at long range with 0 spread, the semi will win every time. Even if the smg can hit the headshot every time, it simply does not deal as much damage to heads.
Secondly, the difficulty of controlling an SMG should be from the recoil counter, not from having to keep the cursor over your enemy long enough to luck out and get a kill. If the SMG were simply to have recoil, less zoom than semi, and no spread, it would be great. It still can't beat a semi at long range, but it isn't luck based. I don''t see why SMG has zoom anyway, it is on for short range. The only point in scoping in on it is to reduce recoil.

For shotgun, I advocate the Halo 1 approach, the shotgun deals damage in a cone in front of it, which drops off in damage over time. Everyone hit within 1 meter takes X damage, within 2 meters takes X-a little damage, by the time it gets to 10 meters or whatever it doesn't deal damage. It's not the most realistic model, but it is great for gameplay.

[MrHaaaaaaxFF]

May as well remove the spread in the shotgun, smg and the rifle if we don't want randomization.
blahblha

For shotgun, I advocate the Halo 1 approach, the shotgun deals damage in a cone in front of it, which drops off in damage over time. Everyone hit within 1 meter takes X damage, within 2 meters takes X-a little damage, by the time it gets to 10 meters or whatever it doesn't deal damage. It's not the most realistic model, but it is great for gameplay.

That's why the ramdomiztion are for. Point-blank takes most damage, and the further the target, damage will drop.

[ThisFrickinSite]

i say no... one person may win a gun fight just because the odds were in his favor... lets not make this like cod where you never know who will win in any situation.

[MrHaaaaaaxFF]

i say no... one person may win a gun fight just because the odds were in his favor... lets not make this like cod where you never know who will win in any situation.

When does CoD implement this?
Seriously, we just need to make it less random:

+4/+5 at point blank
+3/+4
+2/+3
+1/+2
+1/+0
+0/-3 at fog distance

No need for other numbers.

[Priok]

a little bit of damage drop might be alright, just do not do anything like make a gun take 10 shots to kill at long range. I remember reading somewhere that bcoolface would like to make the recoil less random/luck based, I am not so sure if this stuff would serve as a little bit of luck or what, I don't know

[Paratrooper]

May as well remove the spread in the shotgun, smg and the rifle if we don't want randomization.

But then that would just be silly.

No, I actually think that the removal of spread on the SMG is a valid suggestion.

Firstly let me say that semi and smg when compared at long range with 0 spread, the semi will win every time. Even if the smg can hit the headshot every time, it simply does not deal as much damage to heads.
Secondly, the difficulty of controlling an SMG should be from the recoil counter, not from having to keep the cursor over your enemy long enough to luck out and get a kill. If the SMG were simply to have recoil, less zoom than semi, and no spread, it would be great. It still can't beat a semi at long range, but it isn't luck based. I don''t see why SMG has zoom anyway, it is on for short range. The only point in scoping in on it is to reduce recoil.

For shotgun, I advocate the Halo 1 approach, the shotgun deals damage in a cone in front of it, which drops off in damage over time. Everyone hit within 1 meter takes X damage, within 2 meters takes X-a little damage, by the time it gets to 10 meters or whatever it doesn't deal damage. It's not the most realistic model, but it is great for gameplay.

But then the SMG isn't meant for sniping. There is always that one unpredictable variable called "error". Luck, if you want to call it. Whatever.

Would you rationally consider the SMG as a perfectly accurate weapon, especially in long ranges? I wouldn't think so.

[ThisFrickinSite]

i say no... one person may win a gun fight just because the odds were in his favor... lets not make this like cod where you never know who will win in any situation.

When does CoD implement this?
Seriously, we just need to make it less random:

+4/+5 at point blank
+3/+4
+2/+3
+1/+2
+1/+0
+0/-3 at fog distance

No need for other numbers.

it doesnt implement this, but you never know who will win... i dont want an smg 2 shotting me basicaly...

[Gorman]

I wouldn't consider the SMG as a perfectly accurate weapon, but not because the gun itself is not accurate, because of the user. Even an SMG can shoot a few hundred meters accurately, which is above the engagement distance of the game.

The SMG should not be used for sniping simply because the semi is better at it.

That's why the ramdomiztion are for. Point-blank takes most damage, and the further the target, damage will drop.

There are ways to do it in a non-random way. There is no reason that there should be a chance to do full damage at long range, and a chance to do 0 damage at close range.

Using a predictable approach is FAR better. Making it a game of luck instead of skill is a bad idea.

As I said in another thread, either damage randomization will be too little and be meaningless, or be too much and be game breaking. For example 50 damage weapon, if it is randomized between 50-55, then it is meaningless, if it is randomized 45-55 then it is massively game breaking.