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Black holes & "White Holes"

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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby Defaulter » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:41 pm

@Site

mass CAN travel at the speed of light. We just think it can;t because we have never witnessed anything in the universe that can travel faster.

- that doesn't mean there are not currently undetectable processes that DO travel faster

- They used to say it would be impossible to re-create the big bang, CERN did it pretty well on a minute scale. IIRC.

The laws of physics are broken and re-made every few decades. And with enough energy it is a sound theory that you CAN make mass travel at the speed of light. however...there are side effects of the energy release. Perhaps minute black holes/worm holes we don't know, just that if you pack that much energy behind a mass...it distorts space-time

Why do I know this? well i like to think i had a good teacher, he was my one of my physics teachers on an advanced diploma in engineering i attended. He worked for BAE systems and the AWE, AWE being the atomic weapons establishment, and BEA being a military orientated research and development company.

_____________________________


TheSifodias wrote:Actually, @Site, it is possible that matter can be turned into energy. Scientists have discovered that all matter is theorized to be part actual matter, and part energy in the form of a wave. Once the object gets to the size of an electron, its starts to simulate aspects of waves and energy, such as diffraction, reflection, and other characteristics. Even light itself, which is thought to be the universal term of most known energy, is a photon, a part wave. Otherwise E=mc^2 wouldn't make any sense.
So logically, it can be hypothesized that once a piece of matter gets small enough, it will turn into wave energy. And that's the basis of many new theories such as string theory.
Also, the universe is commonly believed to have originated from the Big Bang, correct? Well, there was no matter from before the Big Bang, just energy. So if matter was believed to be created through energy, shouldn't the process be able to reverse. While it would take a lot of energy, the feat may be possible through high bursts of such energy, such as in supernovas and black holes.

@DE: Wouldn't you have to create another black hole and convert both to wormholes?


^ that is actually a fairly good explanation.

As for the wormholes yes if you would use for a gate way Im sure you'd need two. unless you found way to travel through the timestream in which case the same wormhole would have to exist in to different times occupying the same space. So in reality, only one gateway needed.
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby CraftDinur » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:49 pm

Stephen Hawking argues that the time reverse of a black hole in thermal equilibrium is again a black hole in thermal equilibrium implying that black holes and white holes are the same object
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby Defaulter » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:50 pm

CraftDinur wrote:Stephen Hawking argues that the time reverse of a black hole in thermal equilibrium is again a black hole in thermal equilibrium implying that black holes and white holes are the same object


Find me a single point in the universe that is at perfect thermal equilibrium. It's the same reason a perpetual motion/energy device can not be built.
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby ThisFrickinSite » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:54 pm

considering that black holes can already squeeze down anything to an infinitely small size, i don't exactly agree that the black hole will turn into energy.
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby Defaulter » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:58 pm

ThisFrickinSite wrote:considering that black holes can already squeeze down anything to an infinitely small size, i don't exactly agree that the black hole will turn into energy.


A black hole is a side effect, a random anomaly caused by mass gravitational/energy disturbance to space-time. It is a singularity with an indefinably increasing gravitational field strength, which in turn condenses it more.

tl;dr black holes will not travel at the speed of light, there is no way any machine could move it. they are simply an after effect of catastrophic space-time disturbance. In fact the more energy/mass you throw at it, the more it's gravity increases as it adds field strength to it's singularity. Get's heavier the harder you push it, you might say.
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby HoboHob » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:04 am

To people saying that an object can go at the speed of light:
It can't. When an object approaches the speed of light the energy powering it gets converted into more mass. Therefore needing more energy. If you apply the energy needed it would convert into mass. Creating a cycle.

Of course this is all theoretical.
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby ugotpiez » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:05 am

Scientists have discovered a particle that can move just a tiny bit faster than light, called Neutrinos.
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby ChaosTLW » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:10 am

ugotpiez wrote:Scientists have discovered a particle that can move just a tiny bit faster than light, called Neutrinos.

Neutrinos are known(or at least theorized) for quite some time. And if you are refering to that CERN thing, it was actually because of a bad cable if I'm not mistaken that misdetected the time it took for the particles to move.

HoboHob wrote:To people saying that an object can go at the speed of light:
It can't. When an object approaches the speed of light the energy powering it gets converted into more mass. Therefore needing more energy. If you apply the energy needed it would convert into mass. Creating a cycle.

Of course this is all theoretical.


Yesh. In theory you would need infinite energy to get to light speed.
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby ThisFrickinSite » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:33 am

Defaulter wrote:
ThisFrickinSite wrote:considering that black holes can already squeeze down anything to an infinitely small size, i don't exactly agree that the black hole will turn into energy.


A black hole is a side effect, a random anomaly caused by mass gravitational/energy disturbance to space-time. It is a singularity with an indefinably increasing gravitational field strength, which in turn condenses it more.

tl;dr black holes will not travel at the speed of light, there is no way any machine could move it. they are simply an after effect of catastrophic space-time disturbance. In fact the more energy/mass you throw at it, the more it's gravity increases as it adds field strength to it's singularity. Get's heavier the harder you push it, you might say.

have you not been reading the thread? i already said that it is infinitely small and infinitely strong twice. And they are not the side effect of a random anomaly caused my mass gravitation/energy disturbances in space-time. They are caused by special circumstances of stars that are collapsing. Now for a list of things that you said that make me think you may not be smart in this subject area.

1) "black holes will not travel at the speed of light" - DE
Response: No shit. Its against the laws of physics.

2) "there is no way any machine could move it"
Response: No shit. Nothing can escape the event horizon of a black hole and there fore can't touch it without being sucked it.

3) "they are simply an after effect of catastrophic space-time disturbance" -DE
Response: Those "disturbances" are collapsing (dying) stars that just happened to get small enough to get past the point of no return.

4) "In fact the more energy/mass you throw at it, the more it's gravity increases" -DE
Response: No shit. That's how gravity works.

5) "it adds field strength to it's singularity" -DE
Response: Gravity is already infinitely stretched across the entire universe, and what do you mean by singularity?
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby CrazyPug37 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:35 am

I think you will be transported to another dimension. Basically, I think Black Holes are "WormHoles."
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby Defaulter » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:01 am

@Site

I get the impression you are a younger person. you are not understanding what I am trying to say.

Singularity. The black holes point of origin. And the focal point of it's gravitational field....it's singularity.....when mass is added the gravitational strength of the singularity increases 0.0

"Response: Those "disturbances" are collapsing (dying) stars that just happened to get small enough to get past the point of no return."

^ Yes you are confirming what I already said. The collapsing star IS THE disturbance to space-time (space-time IS gravity and what is perceived as time....)

However I didn't see this was getting heated until now, I'll take my leave. I'm willing to accept you know more about this then I do. I'll try researching it some more in future if/when time allows.

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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby ThisFrickinSite » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:10 am

That's not what singularity means... that's what origin means.

Collapsing stars are not disturbances (hence the quotes), they are collapsing stars. For that to be a disturbance, it would have to ruin the entire way the universe works.
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby Semper » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:35 am

I don't know much about black holes and white holes, but I do know that.

epic black holes is epic
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby ChaosTLW » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:43 am

Semper wrote:I don't know much about black holes and white holes, but I do know that.

epic black holes is epic

Do you know how much ambiguity what you said has? lol! You can blame my dirty mind but oh well...
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Re: Black holes & "White Holes"

Postby Semper » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:49 am

ChaosTLW wrote:
Semper wrote:I don't know much about black holes and white holes, but I do know that.

epic black holes is epic

Do you know how much ambiguity what you said has? lol! You can blame my dirty mind but oh well...


White holes are too but you know what that say.
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