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Let the 9/11 spam begin!

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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby ChaosTLW » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:21 pm

ei8htx wrote:The very fact that you're analyzing and comparing the US proves my point.
wat
If I analyze and compare North Korea does that means it is the best country in the world? This logic makes as much sense as if my computer grows teeth and a mouth and eat my leg.
ei8htx wrote:Oh, and the economy? The whole world is going through an economic downturn and Europe is currently worse off than we are.

Doesn't matter, the US is still deep in shit, together with Europe. If the US is the best in the world wouldn't it be able to get up again faster than the rest of the world?

Anyway, I'm not saying the US is bad, nor that it is good. The US really IS the top nation in some things(specially in terms of new technologies development), although in some of those things they are being surpassed and fast, specially by China, but in some things they are worse than most developed countries. Just like almost every other country, with pros and con(except most in Africa, Europe just fucked them up so much they are unlikely to even recover)

EDIT: Disregard my awkward English skills, I didn't knew exactly what bankrupt meant. I wanted to say that the US spends way more than necessary in the military, when that money could be used for better things.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby ei8htx » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:23 am

Well I agree with most of what you said. I'm not saying the US is perfect or that we're not without some (serious) flaws. Just that overall, the US is the best. This where everyone wants to go. 11 million illegal immigrants can't be wrong, and very few people emigrate away from the US.

Best universities, best military, most free people.

Anyways, we're discussing the best countries, which means we would be not comparing to N Korea. If we're comparing the worst countries, N Korea would be an apt comparison.

Oh, and Africa is fucked up because of the Africans. Not Europeans or Americans or the Chinese.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby ChaosTLW » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:34 am

ei8htx wrote:Just that overall, the US is the best.

Well, I'm still not really sure. The US does have quite some bad things. There are n reasons someone would want to go to the USA, and there are other m reasons someone would want to get out of the USA.

btw the illegal immigrants(I suppose you are refering to Mexicans imigrants specifically) go there because:
a)it is a rich-as-fuck country(but with almost all the money in possession of a few people)
b)it is close as shit. The only thing in the way is that border, that we are going to cro *get shot by police sniper*

ei8htx wrote:Oh, and Africa is fucked up because of the Africans. Not Europeans or Americans or the Chinese.

Well that was one of the most racist things I've ever heard. Do you know the potential Africa would have? It was THE richest country in the world in natural resources. The problem is that Europe just striped all that shit away, then shitted over Africa's head and threw some pennys as an apology. That, with the thousands or so of small african tribes THAT THE EUROPEANS PIT TOGETHER AGAISNT EACH OTHER, and you have the reason Africa is fucked up the way it is now.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby ei8htx » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:48 am

People have had to put with adversity for ages, and Africa is no different.

Africans are in control of their own destiny. The middle east has the most resources and look at them. They'd be living in tents and mudhuts if it wasn't for their resources, but instead they managed to capitalize on it and Saudi princes are some of the richest people in the world. They've achieved many things like the Burj Khalifa.

Africa is no different with their initial potential. Even now with all the shitton of aid they've gotten, they're still running around uncivilized in tribes hacking up others and shit. This isn't about race or ethnicity, it's just cold hard fact.

The Japanese conquered China and committed all sorts of atrocities during WWII. Now China is the largest economy in the world as of this year. I wouldn't wanna live there or be a citizen, but they're much better off than Africa.

So what's the excuse? European settlers? I don't buy that shit for an instant.

Don't throw around blanket terms like "racist". Real racism is something beyond the liberal, politically correct term that comes to mean anything that even slightly offends oversensitive people.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby lehma18 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:40 am

The very fact that you're analyzing and comparing the US proves my point. We are the basis of comparison because we're the best.

No, people compare america because it's the most famous country.

We're free men, the rest of the first world is full of generations from a bunch of serfs and peasants. Few really understand what it means to be free. Hell, some people here don't understand.

Is this guy serious? You and i have a very different idea of freedom. But who am i to judge, if you think working for 1 dollar while the CEO makes 10 000$ is freedom.

Oh, and the economy? The whole world is going through an economic downturn and Europe is currently worse off than we are.

China's got a grip on your economy's balls. Europe is in massive dept, true. But so are you.

The US military is bankrupt? Do you know anything about how budgets work?
US's military is a joke. You have won one war - NOT WW2, but the one against Japan. USSR kicked Germany's ass, and you rushed to europe, claimed you beat the deuce and went home.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby lehma18 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:53 am

Enjoy this delicious OC. http://imgur.com/kcnml
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby Venator » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:26 pm

ei8htx wrote:We're free men, the rest of the first world is full of generations from a bunch of serfs and peasants.

Actually the europeans you talking about are your ancestors.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby Varun » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:05 pm

I'd like to point out that while America may have a supposedly "kickass" army, and a total "freedom", it isn't a great place to live in, comparatively. Sure its the land of "opportunity" and stuff, but it has terrible healthcare, and the public transport is pretty shit IMO.

Yes, I have been to America, so I have ground to stand on.

Canada, Switzerland and Australia are among the best places to live in.

Proof -

The Economist Intelligence Unit's Global Liveability Report
City
1. Melbourne [AUS]
2. Vienna [AUT]
3. Vancouver [CAN]
4. Toronto [CAN]
5. Calgary [CAN]
5. Adelaide [AUS]
7. Sydney [AUS]
8. Helsinki [FIN]
9. Perth [AUS]
10. Auckland [AUS]

The countries with the best quality of living -

City
1. Vienna
2. Zurich
3. Oslo
4. Munich
5. Düsseldorf
5.Vancouver
7. Frankfurt
8. Geneva
9. Bern
10. Copenhagen


Best places to live, yes. Most powerful armies, maybe not. In economic shit-storm, not really = Happy Populace.

And the people are pretty disturbing. Again, thats my opinion though.

By the way, wasn't America another convict place, like Australia? Generations of serfs and peasants indeed. America hasn't been around for long enough to have a history of serfs and peasants.

America has done a lot to be proud of, and have managed to do great things, but in the words of Johnny Depp "America is a broken toy that needs to be thrown away".

I like America, but still. Couldn't resist promoting Canada and Australia.

In regard to 9/11, its their way of commemorating the deaths of many people at the hands of suicidal lunatics. It happened, what, a little more than a decade ago? So that means that the majority of the people who died would have relations or friends that still live to mourn. In Australia we still have memorial services every year to celebrate the Aussies who gave their lives in the war (World War[s]), and the motto is "Lest we Forget". The day is certainly going to bring back memories of perhaps the worst day of a person's life, when a person or people they knew died. I don't blame people for being sad. How can you? They don't want to forget the loved ones who died, and it is indeed difficult to put something like that behind you.

Its one day. Out of 365. So maybe the week is going to be filled with people crying about 9/11, but boohoo. Its not like people do it everyday. Its a special (If it can be called that) occasion.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby ChaosTLW » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:12 pm

ei8htx wrote:People have had to put with adversity for ages, and Africa is no different.

Africans are in control of their own destiny. The middle east has the most resources and look at them. They'd be living in tents and mudhuts if it wasn't for their resources, but instead they managed to capitalize on it and Saudi princes are some of the richest people in the world. They've achieved many things like the Burj Khalifa.

Africa is no different with their initial potential. Even now with all the shitton of aid they've gotten, they're still running around uncivilized in tribes hacking up others and shit. This isn't about race or ethnicity, it's just cold hard fact.

The Japanese conquered China and committed all sorts of atrocities during WWII. Now China is the largest economy in the world as of this year. I wouldn't wanna live there or be a citizen, but they're much better off than Africa.

So what's the excuse? European settlers? I don't buy that shit for an instant.

Don't throw around blanket terms like "racist". Real racism is something beyond the liberal, politically correct term that comes to mean anything that even slightly offends oversensitive people.

If you are talking about Africa getting up, then yeah it is up to them, but it is still very unlikely because of the rampant corruption and shit. But what put them in the shitpit they are now was the European colonization, that stripped quite a big part of Africa's resources(and still strip mind you, a lot of what the raw materials produced in Africa ends up in other countries)that arbitralry(probably spelt that wrong but oh well) divided Africa in areas with rival tribes. People that hated each other were forced to work together instead of just minding their shit away from other people. Tribes were divided in half. One day you could visit your neighbour the other side of the street, the other you couldn't go to your bathroom without crossing the border.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby lehma18 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:50 pm

If you are talking about Africa getting up, then yeah it is up to them, but it is still very unlikely because of the rampant corruption and shit. But what put them in the shitpit they are now was the European colonization, that stripped quite a big part of Africa's resources(and still strip mind you, a lot of what the raw materials produced in Africa ends up in other countries)that arbitralry(probably spelt that wrong but oh well) divided Africa in areas with rival tribes. People that hated each other were forced to work together instead of just minding their shit away from other people. Tribes were divided in half. One day you could visit your neighbour the other side of the street, the other you couldn't go to your bathroom without crossing the border.

Africa was in stoneage when we discovered it. Centuries (And a shit ton of money) later, African's still live in mudhuts. I'm sorry, but your arguments are total roodypoo.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby ChaosTLW » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:28 pm

lehma18 wrote:
If you are talking about Africa getting up, then yeah it is up to them, but it is still very unlikely because of the rampant corruption and shit. But what put them in the shitpit they are now was the European colonization, that stripped quite a big part of Africa's resources(and still strip mind you, a lot of what the raw materials produced in Africa ends up in other countries)that arbitralry(probably spelt that wrong but oh well) divided Africa in areas with rival tribes. People that hated each other were forced to work together instead of just minding their shit away from other people. Tribes were divided in half. One day you could visit your neighbour the other side of the street, the other you couldn't go to your bathroom without crossing the border.

Africa was in stoneage when we discovered it. Centuries (And a shit ton of money) later, African's still live in mudhuts. I'm sorry, but your arguments are total roodypoo.

inb4 egypt, one of the oldest civilizations in history
inb4 Carthage, you know, that civilization Rome had quite a good deal of trouble defeating?


http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/s ... ivity4.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-coloni ... n_kingdoms
YES I KNOW IT IS WIKIPEDIA, duck THAT

Warning: big wall of text in-coming
"GHANA EMPIRE: PRE-COLONIAL (c 300 - 1000 AD)


A black empire established in Western Sudan around 300 A.D., Ghana was showered by Egypt's influence. It was an empire lead by kings, princes, governmors, generals, judges, etc. along with other skillful doctors, engineers, architects, artists, mathematicians, and farmers. Gold and iron brought wealth to this empire. In particular, the use of iron revolutionized their social and military systems. This empire ended around 1076 A.D.
Tenkamenin King of Ghana (1037 - 1075 A.D.)--
The king whose strength was in government. Each day he went out and listen to the concerns of the people. Democratic monarchy and religious tolerance. Also when Ghana was in it's highest stage economically.


Civilization before the spread of Islam
Black pre-history civilizations
West Africa in the past
The Iron Age
Tenkamenin King of Ghana--benevolent ruler.

MALI EMPIRE (c 1300-1500 AD)


In 1240 AD, the Mali Empire was established by the African Madingo tribe. It held some of Ghana's political, economic, and religioous ways. The Mandigos of Mali, who were successful in agricultural, becane quite wealthy from trades with Muslims, people of the Sahara, and the north. This empire is also known for making tTimbuktu into an impressive city of Islamic religion and learning.
Mali's momumental moment of glory occurred around early 14th century when it was known for it's prosperity and peace as well as law, order, and justice. In 1326 AD, Mansa Kankan Musa emerged as a powerful king who extended the Mali empire across Africa, and increaased commerce. Unfortunately the empire began to declined after his death in 1337.


The Spread of Islam throughout W. Africa
The Mandigo tribe--established Mali
Sundiatia--founder of Mali
The city of Timbuktu
University of Sankore
Mansa Kankan Musa

SONGHAY EMPIRE (c 700-1600 AD)


As the Mali Empire was declining in 1350, the empire of Songhay was rising under the leadership of Sonni Ali I. Many writers described Sonni Ali as a uncontrollable and harsh. His reign ended after a civil war.
Three years after the civil war, Askia the Great ruled the empire of Songhay. He very much emulated Mansa Musa by adopting Islam. Timbuktu was the cultural capital as well as the center of international commerce. Even the Portuguese established trading with them in the year 1448. Unfortunately, the Songhay Empire went into turmoil in 1591 when the Moors invaded. And when the Moors left, Europeans seized colonial power of the land.




Songhay Empire
Sonni Ali--founder of Songhay
Askia the Great--a.k.a Mohammad Toure
Africa when Europeans arrived

MOORISH EMPIRE


In the last half of the 11th century, the Moorish empire included Senegal, Morocco, Algeria, Tunis, and southern Spain. Beginning around the 7th or 8th century in northern Africa by black arabs, the Moors crossed over Gibralta into Spain and developed one the most distinguished cultural civilizations in Europe during that time. They established universities and libraries in Spain during their 700 years of ruling.'

and more info on the 3 big ones:

"Ghana was already a powerful empire, with a highly complex political and social organization, when the Arabs reached it about 800 A,D. An Arabic map of 830 A.D. has Ghana marked on it, and other contemporary Arabic sources refer to Ghana as the land of gold. From this time on, a thriving trade developed between Ghana and the world of Islam, including the beginnings of a slave trade. However, this early slave trade was a two-way affair. Al-Bakri, a contemporary Arab writer, was impressed with the display of power and affluence of the Ghanaian king. According to him, the king had an army of two hundred thousand warriors which included about forty thousand men with bows and arrows. (Modern scholars know that the real power of the Ghanaian army was due not to its large numbers as much as to its iron- pointed spears.) Al- Bakri also described an official audience at the royal palace in which the king, the Ghana, was surrounded by lavish trappings of gold and silver and was attended by many pages, servants, large numbers of faithful officials, provincial rulers, and mayors of cities. On such occasions, the king heard the grievances of his people and passed judgMent on them. Al- Bakri also describes lavish royal banquets which included a great deal of ceremonial ritual.

The power of the king, and therefore of the empire, was based on his ability to maintain law and order in his kingdom. This provided the development of a flourishing commerce, and it was by taxing all imports and exports that the king was able to finance his government. The key item in this financial structure was the regulation of the vast gold resources of West Africa, and it was by controlling its availability that the king was also able to manipulate its value. However, after the eleventh century, the Ghanaian empire was continually exposed to harassment from a long series of Arabic holy wars. Over a long period of time, the power of the king was reduced until the empire of Ghana finally collapsed. From its ashes emerged the basis for the creation of a new and even larger empire: the empire of Mali.

Mali, like Ghana, was built on gold. While Ghana had been under attack by the Arabs from outside, various peoples from within struck for their own freedom. The Mandinka people, who had been the middlemen in the gold trade and who had received protection from the king of Ghana, achieved their independence in 1230 A.D. They went on to use their position in the gold trade to build an empire of their own. The peak of their influence and power was achieved in the early fourteenth century under MansaKankan Musa who ruled Mali for a quarter of a century. He extended its boundaries beyond those of Ghana to include such important trading cities as Timbuktu and Gao, encompassing an area larger than that controlled by the European monarchs of that day. This empire also was based on its ability to provide stable government and a flourishing economy. An Arab traveler, Ibn Batuta, shortly after Musa's death, found complete safety of travel throughout the entire empire of Mali

Mansa Musa and, for that matter, the entire ruling class of Mali had converted to Islam. This intensified the contacts between West Africa and the Islamic world. Although several of these kings made pilgrimages to Mecca, the most spectacular was the one by Mansa Musa in 1324. On his way there, he made a prolonged visit to Cairo. While there, both his generosity in giving lavish gifts of gold to its citizens and his extravagant spending poured so much gold into the Cairo market that it caused a general inflation. It was estimated by the Arabs that his caravan included some sixty thousand people and some five hundred personal slaves. Mansa Musa took a number of Arabic scholars and skilled artisans back to West Africa with him. These scholars enhanced the university of Timbuktu which was already widely known as a center of Islamic studies. Now, besides exchanging material goods, West Africa and the Arabs became involved in a steady exchange of scholars and learning.

The success of Mali in bringing law and order to a large portion of West Africa was responsible for its decline. Having experienced the advantages of political organization, many localities sought self-government. In fact, Mansa Musa had overextended the empire. A skilled ruler like himself could manipulate it, but those who followed were not adequate to the challenge. Movements for self- government gradually eroded central authority until by 1500 Mali had lost its importance as an empire. Although the period of its power and prosperity was respectable by most world empire standards, it was short-lived compared to the history of the previous empire of Ghana. Again, a new empire was to emerge from the ruins of the previous one.

The Songhay empire was based on the strength of the important trading city of Gao. This city won its independence from Mali as early as 1375, and, within a century, it had developed into an empire. Songhay carried on a vigorous trade with the outside world and particularly with the Arabic countries. The ruling class, in particular, continued to follow the religion of Islam, but it is generally believed that the masses of the population remained faithful to the more traditional West African religions based on fetishism and ancestor worship. Two of the more powerful rulers were Suni Ali, who began his 28-year reign in 1464, and Askia Mohammed, who began his 36-year reign in 1493. Askia Mohammed was also known as Askia the Great. The security of Songhay was undermined when Arabs from Morocco invaded and captured the key trading city of Timbuktu in 1591. Thus ended the last of the three great empires of West Africa.

It would be a mistake, however, to assume that those parts of West Africa which remained outside of these three empires fulfilled the usual European image of primitive savagery. On the contrary, a number of other small yet powerful states existed throughout the entire period. If this had not been so, the Europeans, as they arrived in the fifteenth century, could have pillaged West Africa at will. Instead, the Europeans were only able to establish trading stations where local kings permitted it. With the exception of a few raiding parties which seized Africans and carried them off as slaves, most slave acquisition was done through hard bargaining and a highly systematized trading process. The Europeans were never allowed to penetrate inland, and they found that they always had to treat the African kings and their agents as business equals. Many of the early European visitors, in fact, were impressed by the luxury, power, trading practices, skilled crafts, and the complex social structure which they found in Africa. Only in some parts of East Africa, where the states were unusually small, were the Portuguese able to pillage and conquer at will. While many Europeans may have thought of Africa as being filled with ignorant savages, those who reached its shores were impressed instead with its vigorous civilization. "


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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby ei8htx » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:13 pm

Free men have guns. Any of you have guns? And not your daddy's dear gun with a gov't permit. I'm talking about a military rifle.

Enjoy your increasingly socialist gov't. Of course livability and healthcare are gonna be up; you're screwing over the next generation by going massively in debt. You're maxing out a credit card that your children will pay for. Not to say that the US isn't doing the exact same thing, just not as bad. You can't buy a 50k dollar car on your credit card when making 10 bucks an hour and brag that you're more wealthy than your neighbor frugally spending 15/hour driving an old Toyota.

Shit will eventually get bad, and the US being the most libertarian, we will always be free. The generation of serfs and peasants that is Europe clearly have no problem submitting themselves to a king; or the modern equivalent: a dictator. All the ones that got fed up with it left for America over the course of the last 4-5 centuries.

Make no mistake, when you guys max out that credit card, you'll be begging for big Gov to help you out, and oh they will.

You guys just don't get it. But your children will.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby ei8htx » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:14 pm

Oh, and who's the reserve currency of the world? What is every other dollar on earth pegged off of?
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby MrMeow » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:08 pm

I'm American and I've been saying this for years.
It's OK for a family to grieve, But asking the hole country to grieve for those who lost their lives 11 years ago?
It doesn't need any more media coverage.
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Re: Let the 9/11 spam begin!

Postby Marxist » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:55 am

Because Americans hate Muslims, and Muslims attacked Americans. Now Bush started a War on terror - something almost as pointless as the war on drugs, and sent our men over to invade other countries in the middle east, and die "for their country." Currently the whole middle east is rioting against us, and all the Republicans can do is make jokes about Obama, and call him a wuss for apologizing, and criticize him when Romney's doing the same things they act like they're against.

Terry Jones and the Koran burners have really done it this time, and waged war on the whole Muslim population by making Muhammad look like an idiot.
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