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Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

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Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby MegaDeuce » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:09 am

NOTE: My friend wrote this for me, so I'm posting it :)


########################################################
# WHY YOU MORONS DON'T KNOW HOW TO BUILD A FORT IN AOS #
########################################################
by Justice aka JusticeCantStop aka JusticeIsDrunk aka JusticeForever, etc.

While playing Ace of Spades, I see a lot of these miniforts built
on its war-torn plains:

DESIGN 1: THE NOOB FORT
---------------------
Image

That is, it has five blocks across the top, and walls that protect its
inhabitants running three blocks deep.

If fort design were a class and I were teaching it, and you built me this
piece of shit. I would fail you. In fact, I fail people who build these things
all the time. I shoot them in the head. If I saw you build this, I would wait
for you to finish then grade your paper. That's right; you'd fail.

Why so bad, you ask? Before I can answer that question, we have to agree on
what the objective of a fort is:
1) To prevent its inhabitants from being shot.
2) To allow its inhabitants to shoot people.
Superficially, these are contradictory goals. If the inhabitants can shoot
people, then they are able to be shot. From a more practical perspective,
though, a fort which can't be shot out of will be quickly over run, as
the enemy may easily approach and kill the inhabitants of the fort. Similarly,
a fort with too few shot windows will make it too obvious where an inhabitant
will shoot from and make it easy for snipers to pick them off.

Consequentially, a fort's effectiveness results from its ability to allow
inhabitants to shoot at attackers as long as possible--in other words, to
get as many shots off as possible while taking as few hits as possible.

This just leads to more questions, really. How do you take as few hits as
possible? This is a complex question of geometry, not quite supported by
this txt formatted document. To kill people effectively, you need to:
+ Be unpredictable.
Appearing in the same hole ten times in a row is obvious,
and when someone figures out your "perfect hiding spot,"
you deserve nothing less than the death they grant you.

The perfect hiding spot is constant motion. Even if someone
spots you, they shouldn't know where you'll be next. A
fundamental problem with forts is that they make it obvious
where you will be. A perfect fort, then, approximates this
unpredictability as much as possible.

+ Sweep the battlefield visually.
Popping up from behind a barrier--from crouch to stand--is
generally a terrible idea. First of all, someone with an eye
on your location will see the sudden change, know exactly
where you are, and shoot. Then you will be dead. Additionally,
you have an entire battlefield to survey, very suddenly. This is
hard to do.

Instead, slowly turn around blocks. This reveals the battlefield
slowly, in visually digestable chunks. It makes it easier for you
to spot and shoot first.

Additionally, popping up from behind a barrier reveals you
to multiple targets at once. Turning a corner, under most
circumstances only reveals one person at a time. You can shoot
down an army one person at a time. If an army can shoot you,
though, you're hosed.
+ Vanish.
Just as you can appear unpredictably, you should be able to
disappear just as quickly. Staying in sight of the enemy
too long will get you killed. You need to take that
advantage away from them.

This brings us back to Design 1. Why is it so bad? It literally prevents
all three of those tactics from being implemented:
+ Be unpredictable
Design 1 has one, very predictable hole. Anyone inside is visible
in that hole.

+ Sweep the battlefield visually.
The entire battlefield is visible from any point in Design 1.
You are visible to the entire battlefield in Design 1.

+ Vanish.
You can't vanish if there's nothing to hide behind.

The real flaw behind Design 1 is that there's nothing to hide behind.
Additionally, that row of blocks on top does nothing to protect someone
in the fort. Perhaps it would protect their head if they stood up, but
that prevents them from shooting and leaves their gut exposed.

What, then, makes an ideal fort? First off, there is no one ideal fort.
Conditions dictate what makes a better fort, and sometimes, improvising
with what's already there is the best--and most fun--thing to do. You're
going to have to be creative with your shovel.

However, let's assume we're on an empty plain. We're on blue, and five
greens are running at us, and yellow shit's already zipping over head
and making those "oh shit, I'm gonna die" noises. What do you do? There's
no time to dig.

Crouch down and build a barrier as follows, starting with 2.1, then building
2.2, then 2.3:

DESIGN 2: THE "OH SHIT, IMPROVISE" FORT
---------------------------------------
Image

You're probably saying "oh, that's obvious you jackass!" Then why do
I see Design 1 everywhere or its bastard cousin, Design 3?

DESIGN 3: THE NOOBIER FORT
--------------------------
Image

It's like they got to Design 2.1, then decided to become stupid. What's
really important is Design 2.2. Once you have a 2x2 barrier, you can't
directly take a shot. Until someone shoots through those blocks, you,
my friend, are invincible.

Design 2 doesn't work against people that are higher than you. The
reality of the geometry is that they can still see your head over the
blocks. This is really a substep for Design 4.

DESIGN 4: MY FAVORITE BARRIERS
-------------------------------
SHORT

Image

LONG

Image


What do these provide? Everything specified--unpredictability, sweeping,
and vanishing. In 4.SHORT alone, one can sweep in four places. In 4.LONG,
you can sweep anywhere.

Also, as a plus, 4.SHORT can be built up into 4.LONG easily, making a nice,
modular expansion process.

So, why Design 4.LONG? Why not, say, Design 5?

DESIGN 5: THE TYPICAL WALL
--------------------------

Image

In Design 5, you can never be completely covered while standing up and the
blocks are too close together for you to effectively sweep the battlefield.

Anyway, I just spent way too long writing up a rant about a game I haven't
had time to play in months. There's more I'd like to elaborate on, but I
hope that helps, Megadeuce.

- JUSTICE -
- JUSTICE ETERNAL -
- JUSTICE MAXIMUS -
- JUSTICE FOREVER -
- JUSTICE CAN'T STOP -
- JUSTICE IS DRUNK -
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby Altoids » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:01 am

Good job. I lol'd at the third noob design.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby Fluttershy » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:39 am

Those are walls. The title is misleading.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby TheSifodias » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:49 am

My unpredictability is shooting at blocks on block thick walls. The enemy is too busy hiding or firing to notice there's a small hole in their wall.

Also, you're tactics work in even, level places where the enemy can show up anywhere. In Goon Haven 2 and similar maps, the attacking force usually does not have enough time to shoot you before you kill a great deal of them.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby AlexKirchu » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:26 am

Nice, thank you for a few pointers, next time I shall be trying design 4 over design 5 now.

And LOLOLOL at the "bastard cousin, Design 3" =P
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby Danqazmlp » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:27 pm

Walls aren't forts...

Walls are sometimes a bad idea because they can easily be turned around. Too many times the enemy has made a large wall only to have it used against them when my team has gotten to it, effectively trapping the enemy in their own base. Forts, even that small one is harder to turn around.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby kmaj » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:47 pm

Danqazmlp wrote:Walls aren't forts...

Walls are sometimes a bad idea because they can easily be turned around. Too many times the enemy has made a large wall only to have it used against them when my team has gotten to it, effectively trapping the enemy in their own base. Forts, even that small one is harder to turn around.

One way to make turning walls harder is to make a 4-block high wall with a ladder.

Also, OP's walls don't have lateral/sniper protection.I'd personally prefer walls similar to #5, but with longer merlets.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby Articsledder » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:27 pm

trenches master race
aend tehn teh cahirs began to snip
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby demo123 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:03 pm

Even tough we are talking bout forts.
Tell me what do you think of this bunker:
http://i42.tinypic.com/25fu8b5.png
http://i43.tinypic.com/xksopc.png

Since it seems you know some stuf bout buildings.
That bunker was placed at the exact spot where the intel was.

PS:This was my first bunker i made in this game.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby Danqazmlp » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:16 pm

That for looks ok, but not spectacular:

Too far from the action. Unless you want to camp there for intel grabbers, it won't be very effective.
Also, not much cover on the way up, too many windows around the stairs.
But does look quite imposing, so could add the fear factor into the enemy.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby Mehrunes » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:06 pm

Oh my fucking god..

This is insane. I have never seen such an original thread. Such sense is being pounded into me. This may be the most awesome thread ever.

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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby SLoW » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:37 pm

MegaDeuce wrote: + Sweep the battlefield visually.
Popping up from behind a barrier--from crouch to stand--is
generally a terrible idea. First of all, someone with an eye
on your location will see the sudden change, know exactly
where you are, and shoot. Then you will be dead. Additionally,
you have an entire battlefield to survey, very suddenly. This is
hard to do.

Instead, slowly turn around blocks. This reveals the battlefield
slowly, in visually digestable chunks. It makes it easier for you
to spot and shoot first.

Additionally, popping up from behind a barrier reveals you
to multiple targets at once. Turning a corner, under most
circumstances only reveals one person at a time. You can shoot
down an army one person at a time. If an army can shoot you,
though, you're hosed.



I'm pretty sure mikuli would strongly disagree with you on this point, and I'll parrot what he told me back to you. Sneaking out from the side of a wall/fort/whatever DOES reveal people more slowly, but it also leaves you vulnerable. There's a small window of time where you're able to be shot, and not able to see the person shooting at you. When you're playing against newbies or moderately skilled players, this isn't too important, and I'd personally much prefer sneaking out the side, taking a shot, and sneaking back in.

However, when you're playing against extremely skilled players, they WILL use that window to their full advantage. Popping up from cover is significantly faster, and gives both players the same chance to shoot each other. If you combine moving around with popping UP from cover, you stand significantly better odds of surviving and thriving.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby mikuli » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:26 pm

SLoW wrote:
I'm pretty sure mikuli would strongly disagree with you on this point, and I'll parrot what he told me back to you. Sneaking out from the side of a wall/fort/whatever DOES reveal people more slowly, but it also leaves you vulnerable. There's a small window of time where you're able to be shot, and not able to see the person shooting at you. When you're playing against newbies or moderately skilled players, this isn't too important, and I'd personally much prefer sneaking out the side, taking a shot, and sneaking back in.

However, when you're playing against extremely skilled players, they WILL use that window to their full advantage. Popping up from cover is significantly faster, and gives both players the same chance to shoot each other. If you combine moving around with popping UP from cover, you stand significantly better odds of surviving and thriving.



Ayep. Gotta say while the window is pretty small and difficult to take advantage of, if you cant hit a 2 pixel wide edge of a head, you deserve to get shot by the strafer. I do like your design #4 though, I'd probably make the 3 block high sections one block less wide, so that you have adequate strafing room and a much larger area of a probable pop-up. The thing is, if i see your head in the two block wide hole in the left flank, I will be expecting your head again in the next slit over, and when it pops up, bang. Two block wide hole leaves me only a small nudge of hand or a quick directional strafe to correct for a possible position from aiming at the center. The three block high sections give you a bit of breathing room and a spot for a quick jump-shot, although I really wouldn't recommend trying one against anyone who knows their game. Unless you're Tank or TheGrandmaster.

Of course, in my opinion, the best wall is straight 2 block high. Impossible to accurately predict the pop-up location without knowledge of the adversary's playing style.

I wrote up a long rant about that stuff about a month ago: Shameless Self-ad
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby Frostified » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:44 pm

Sticky this.
I want to have babies with it.
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Re: Why you don't know how to build a fort in AOS

Postby Stiivais » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:44 pm

how to make a FORT. Stiivais style!

1.make an underground tunnel to the place where the fort will be.
2.make walls, like the noob fort, but without windows, entrances etc.
3.make a 2nd floor with walls and ceiling in the color of your teams skin, along with a set of stairs.
4. ---
5.profit

diagram:
i - air
j - earth
o - block
x - player


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Also: shutting up because i have caused some annoyances lately.
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