Bunkers, Towers et al, A Criticsm

[Phonic]

I just got back to AoS today after months of forgetting about it, and I forgot how awesome it was!

But, I also forgot some things that have been deuce at me, so here it goes, consider this a reply to Tai's exellent war acedemy, it's a great guide but there's some stuff I think is wrong in it that I want to challenge, so I'm open to debate, I'm going to do that by looking over the basic bunker types and what I think of them - and ways they should be improved by all players

This is a pretty basic wall, built on the Goonshaven server 1, and I got into an argument over it, everybody seemed completely fine with it, and Tai's guide endorses this structure: but it makes no sense.



Surely the point of a wall is to keep people out, but we're giving them a fricking gate? That's silly and renders the wall semi pointless (it admitedly still protects AFK spawners from snipers).
So here's what I do: completely block off the wall and add a one way step over it, this is better for two reasons: enemies need to dig through (there's no steps on the other side) and friendlies can't run back from the frontlines, they fight or die.



Here's my biggest problem with bunkers: crooks, why?
When I looking for an enemy to snipe I found this comfy Green sitting in a pillbox, I take a shot; BANG, but he's still alive! I missed! Well surely all is lost; he's taken cover by now..right? Wrong! He can't take cover quick enough in the second it takes for me to fire my far more accurate second shot: because he can't get up and has to slowly crouch to cover. When you're getting sniped it's a second of time (often less) that decides life or death, and crooks slow you down noticably from backing up or taking cover in a nook.



I'd rather a similar structure, but lacking crooks: a building 4 blocks high (including roof) but with the windows on the second row from the ground with parapets...What's that? You don't want to have to hold down Ctrl? To be frank I think that's a silly reason to have to use crooks, they'll get you killed and eventually holding down Ctrl becomes second nature, you'll forget about it.

Another peeve of mine are these things below, silly inventions that everyone seems to use: they immidiately give you away and there's rarely so much increased view that it's worth the attention of the entire enemy team's snipers



And they tend to lead to poorly built perchs like this, these things can be destroyed at long range by a few well placed mags of SMG, easy. All it takes is a single player not interested in kills.



In the end, those World Wars folks were right about trenchs: these things really are the best form of defense for infantry



Though sadly many servers that don't emulate real life locations don't allow digging underground,

and we're left with the second best structure in AoS: the standard pillbox, always add a roof, always add a back wall with the color of your team as camo, f**k crooks.

Agree? Disagree?

[ChaosTLW]

Best defense is a wall with a hole in it.It is simple,fast to make,and effective against SMGs if you make it 2~3 blocks thick.

[Tai]

Surely the point of a wall is to keep people out, but we're giving them a fricking gate? That's silly and renders the wall semi pointless (it admitedly still protects AFK spawners from snipers).
So here's what I do: completely block off the wall and add a one way step over it, this is better for two reasons: enemies need to dig through (there's no steps on the other side) and friendlies can't run back from the frontlines, they fight or die.

Anytime you build something that lots of people will use, there has to be an easy way to navigate it. Lots of people will refuse to jump over your structure and simply dig through because they're jerks. A gate here and there is good because it directs the flow of personnel, and you'll be hard pressed to find an enemy willing to charge through one rather than just hug the wall.

What you're describing is the precursor to the staircase, which is useful on chokepoint maps (IE Hallway) but too resource intensive on larger, more mountainous ones.

Here's my biggest problem with bunkers: crooks, why?

Crooks prevent you from needing to constantly hold down the ctrl key. This can help you react faster to things rather than having your hand awkwardly stretched over the keyboard. It is really a matter of personal preference, but it's sort of a necessity for me as I have pretty severe RSI.

[Phonic]

I follow, but crooks actually slow you down when you attempt to take cover, when you try sidestep to the cover block you're moving far slower than usual, just enough time for me to kill you.

[Gorman]

Tai seems to swap out optimal protection for comfort.


The walls I use are 3 high, with 2 wide crenellation with 2 spaces in between them. On my side of the wall I put a 1 high strip of blocks so I can stand and look over the wall or jump over it but the enemies can't do the same. If I have more time I will make this wall another block taller and thicker.
The main benefit of crenellations is to block line of sight, so that I can pick to only fight one part of the battlefield and be confident that someone out of my field of view cannot snipe me. Of course, move around constantly so they can't destroy the cren' and pick you off, or predict your ducking.

On a map that I can dig I prefer 4x4 foxholes, they are 2 deep and in the middle 2x2 they are 3 deep so I can hide from people up high. I usually keep pressing forward and linking them with trenches. This is a great tactic on a map like Cemetary. Trenches are far superior to walls.

[CalenLoki]

I agree with Tai about gates - unless it's front wall, it should have at last 3 of them (central and flanks) on GH.
Stairs are bad choice because they expose yourself to enemy snipers - even if he don't kill you right away, he'll know where you are. I always ignore such stairs and make my own gates.

Walls are great, but on gh1 they need to have bastions (bunker reaching forward from main wall, with windows pointing only at sides, not front) at flanks, so you can shot from side at enemy who try to use the wall.

But I agree with OP about crooks... maybe because I have long fingers :P

Anyway - I tend to build 50% of server useful cover (first line), so usually I don't have to complain about "having to use shitty structures".

[Stiivais]

I also agree about the gates, but i think that people don't only care about the functionality, but also about the looks. Have you ever seen a fort, which has no entrance? :P
But if you aim only to win, and are playing against pros, no gates can be a good strategy.
Only, in that case, wall must be thick...

[CalenLoki]

I'd rather have two 1-block thick walls with 10 blocks gap between them, than one 3-blocks thick. Cheaper, easier to repair, harder to destroy, harder to capture. And if it's long wall (so you never sit at one place longer than 3 shoots) jackhammering is not a problem. Only bunkers, where you plan to spend some time, need to be reinforced, and even then two thin walls are better.

[MrHank]

Ive started using trenches and Im really thinking its the best strategy. Now if only I could convince my teammates to use them

[USABxBOOYO]

Unfortunately the whole gates thing in its entirety is flawed as teammates will still dig through your wall and make stairs going up the wall in order to get through it.

[Tai]

I'd rather have two 1-block thick walls with 10 blocks gap between them, than one 3-blocks thick. Cheaper, easier to repair, harder to destroy, harder to capture.

The issue you run into with a series of walls is that people tend to occupy either the strongest fortification or the fortification closest to the front line. The ones in between are rarely used, and just make it easier for the enemy to sneak around.

[Tigershield]

The issue you run into with a series of walls is that people tend to occupy either the strongest fortification or the fortification closest to the front line. The ones in between are rarely used, and just make it easier for the enemy to sneak around.

it's true.When most people build they build random shit at random places.If you make like a zigzag movement of buildings on the map ''island'' you can occupy atleast the frontline.and if you get pushed back get to another bunker to fight them off.Dont build bunker near bunker. seperate them into forts.ADvance in stages.


Something like this

<> = bunker


<> frontline <>




<> <> middle line ( fallback area.if frontline is breaking down)




<> your starting area <>

[Zecora]

I never make crooks. I also hate finding two-space-tall tunnels...

[Funk]

every thing you dig or build should be crouch to safety.

the best wall i have found is this

Code: Select all

           X
         XX
      XXXX
     X
  X X     X
X X X    X



the in side is great for shoot out of but friendlies can go to the frontlines.

the main problems with trenchs are bad building and often a lack of flat ground.
and a lot of the time no one zigzags them.

try this trench plan.

Code: Select all

          X
XXXOOXXX
XXXOXXXX

Camouflage
or how not to get shot

ok, Phonic had a good point in useing the same colour as your team but some times you need to hide the building.

build useing blocks of the same colour as the ground you are building on.
bunkers should dig out the back walls and rebuild them the same as the out side.

windows

good now try not to build windows are leave your sides open, or that you can duck when useing.

[Gorman]

Protip: Never stand right up to a window, stay at least 3 or 4 blocks away from it - now you can have 150 degree arc of fire from a 1x1 window, and can shoot up or down easily!

Just another lesson learned from real life, and logic!