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Official Team/Squad Discussion

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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Gorman » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:36 am

  • Squad members have a different border around their icons on the map and radar. And when your crosshairs go over a friendly player it will display their squad aswell as their name.
  • Press Q to access squad menu, it displays the current squad members in a similar way to the leaderboard. Here you can create a squad with any name if you are not in a squad. If you are in a squad, if you are the squad leader you can:
    - Invite a player to squad
    - Kick a player
    If you are not the squad leader you can:
    - Suggest a player to squad leader (if the squad leader opens the interface they will see that player and can click to invite them)
  • Any player can place markers ('build there', 'attack there', 'go there', 'enemy spotted there') which appear as in the image that keeps getting posted ( http://goo.gl/SAbu8 ). There would be a hotkey to quickplace markers, such as 7 for "player spotted", 8 for "attack there" etc. They are placed where your crosshairs are looking. As you would expect you need to look at a block, not up at the sky. Markers expire in a few minutes, but perhaps there could be some way to make them permanent (for leader only). Leader can also remove any marker (look at marker and press 0, or something), squad members can remove their own. Markers also appear on map. When a player leaves the squad their markers are cleared.
  • Revival: if you are standing on the corpse of a dead squad mate when their respawn timer runs out, they will spawn there. Otherwise they will spawn as normal.
  • Squad leader could have options to allow players to only create certain types of markers (eg only allowed to create enemy spotted markers, and not build/attack/move orders).
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby CalenLoki » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:13 am

Squad are good, but:

1. spawning at leader/quad member is really bad idea - it allows to just hide and be invisible spawn point in the middle of enemy base. Sane options to re-create damaged squads are:
-reviving - that require one of members to physically go to the body and spend there some time
-creating visible on the map (for enemy) spawning beacon (nade with coloured smoke) that can be camped/destroyed.
-spawning on parachutes above your squad (so for spawning on the first line you pay with being cover-less sitting duck for some time). it also require some skill (when to open/detach parachute)

2. what do you mean by "spotting"? If something like showing enemy on the map, then I'm against. How can you determine that you "see the enemy? sometimes he's rendered and not obscured, you're looking at him, but you don't know that he's there - showing his position wouldn't be fair.
If just marking area for your team-mates (waypoints, "enemy is somewhere there"), then I'm for it.

3. about medikits - I'd rather see them as p2p devices, where one player heals another, rather than magic box that heals you - we want to increase teamwork after all. Boxes could be used to replenish ammo, but they should be carried on the back in place of intel/mortar/hmg from your tent (supply line)

4. IMO abilities (healing, reviving, creating waypoints) should be available to everyone. But only commander should be able to send requests to other teams (like "we need reinforcement/supply/support fire"), and create spawn points.
There should be also chain of command - if commander die, next one gain his abilities

5. How squads works?
-One player decide to create one - he became commander.
-He can set a name ("alpha", ect.), description ("defending north bunker", ect.), colour (visible for whole team on map an scoreboard, and maybe some badge on shoulder)and set squad to be open or closed.
-Other players can join if squad is open. If closed, leader can allow or deny them (denying disallow you from applying for next 5 minutes, to avoid spam).
-Commander can set chain of command (just shuffle from top to bottom) and kick players (again - ban for 5 minutes from squad). If you move yourself from top somewhere lower, leave squad or game, next in command became new commander
-There is no limit for number of squads or players per squad.

6. I don't like system where you have to arbitrary choose abilities of your squads (building/attacking/ect.). IMO players should choose their equipment individually to fit squad's objective. And it limits creativity in tactics - who said that attacking squad couldn't use engineer to stay just behind the squad and reinforce what they managed to claim?

7. once we have squads (and maybe higher player limit in the near future), maybe we could have global commanders? They would receive requests and create waypoints from squads. Not too useful with 16 players on each side, but with 50 it might be crucial.
They'd be voted by squad commanders from squad commanders (so privates don't have to bother with that). Each squad commander would have as many votes as he has soldiers, and he'd choose which squad commander he supports (by default - himself). Example:
alpha (4 players), vote beta; beta (5 players) vote beta; gamma (7 players) vote gamma; commander=beta.

Ninjad... not that hard with wall of text. That idea with setting permision for waypoints/markers is nice Gorman. IMO applying is better system than invitation - of course both could work at the same time.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Kugutsu » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:08 pm

I think we should put more emphasis on voxel building, the feature of AoS which distinguishes itself from any other FPS games.
The complete control on the environment of battlefield is what makes AoS much more fun than regular FPS games, and makes the popularity of AoS increases continuously.

Currently AoS lacks teamwork, neither in battle nor voxel building.
We wander in battlefield to find enemies to shoot their heads, we build 2-grid height walls to protect ourselves or dig a tunnel for ambushment, in most cases, that's enough.

So three subjects:
1. teamwork in battle;
2. teamwork in voxel building;
3. more connections between battle and voxel building.

There is a simple solution which solves all three at once, I call it "Facility Building Patterns".

Those buildings are built by players, and following particular patterns.
Steps:
1. Only squad leader can give building orders. He click on a building icon from building menu, then move his mouse over ground and find a place to put in down.
2. Now the pattern will be shown on the ground by transparent voxels, those vexels are not real ones, but only indicate that now you and your squad members should fill it with voxels.
3. After the pattern being filled completely, it turns into Facility Building with certain functions.

The complexity of the building patterns should not be too low, nor too high. It should be done by a four-member squad in a certain time.
The voxels of the building should be more harder to be destroyed, like 10 shot, if a certain number of voxels of the building have been destroyed, the function of that building will not work until you fill it again.
If the enemies stand nearby the building for a certain time, they can capture it.

And I suggest several facility buildings as an example:
1. Barracks, works as spawn point;
2. Medic Station, slowly recovery for a large area, or instant recovery when nearby;
3. Munition Station, providing ammo when nearby, also you can change weapons(class) here.
etc... even turrets may be possible.

I suggest those three buildings only work for the squad who build it, this will encourage team members work together more often.
If player want to heal or revive their teammate when in battle, make Medic Station generate a few medic packs or something periodically, these are consumables, squad member can only obtain one or two at a time.

More buildings depends on your imagination.

So squad member will work together to build structure, spawn at the same location, Medic Station gives squad member area recovery effect. The battle is more like territory vs territory, with more tactics involved.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby thedoctor1212 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:36 pm

Spotting, agreed
stock pile, agreed
commanders, agreed

One major flaw...

SNIPERS
snipers almost always work solo, unless they need cover fire. When you think about it sniping is a huge part of AOS, what would happen if we didn't have snipers; is there limited amount of players per server that snipe (weapon compulsory as rifle and player gets booted if they're not siping), what?

Answer me that, WHAT HAPPENS TO SNIPING???
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Tek2 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:11 pm

Gorman wrote:Squad leader could have options to allow players to only create certain types of markers (eg only allowed to create enemy spotted markers, and not build/attack/move orders).

I think this kind of stuff would overcomplicate AoS while not giving enough good content.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby TheGeekZeke101 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:24 pm

Tek2 wrote:
TheGeekZeke101 wrote:If squads were implemented I would want:

-Spotting

Spotting would be a cool feature. The idea you could see someone through your map using team mates would be a neat idea. Would make the maps more useful.

How would you make it so that it couldn't be abused to find hidden enemies?


They wouldn't be hidden then. Spotting is when you or a team mate looks at an enemy and their location then becomes visible on the map.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Tigershield » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:24 pm

Kugutsu wrote:I think we should put more emphasis on voxel building, the feature of AoS which distinguishes itself from any other FPS games.
The complete control on the environment of battlefield is what makes AoS much more fun than regular FPS games, and makes the popularity of AoS increases continuously.

Currently AoS lacks teamwork, neither in battle nor voxel building.
We wander in battlefield to find enemies to shoot their heads, we build 2-grid height walls to protect ourselves or dig a tunnel for ambushment, in most cases, that's enough.

So three subjects:
1. teamwork in battle;
2. teamwork in voxel building;
3. more connections between battle and voxel building.

There is a simple solution which solves all three at once, I call it "Facility Building Patterns".

Those buildings are built by players, and following particular patterns.
Steps:
1. Only squad leader can give building orders. He click on a building icon from building menu, then move his mouse over ground and find a place to put in down.
2. Now the pattern will be shown on the ground by transparent voxels, those vexels are not real ones, but only indicate that now you and your squad members should fill it with voxels.
3. After the pattern being filled completely, it turns into Facility Building with certain functions.

The complexity of the building patterns should not be too low, nor too high. It should be done by a four-member squad in a certain time.
The voxels of the building should be more harder to be destroyed, like 10 shot, if a certain number of voxels of the building have been destroyed, the function of that building will not work until you fill it again.
If the enemies stand nearby the building for a certain time, they can capture it.

And I suggest several facility buildings as an example:
1. Barracks, works as spawn point;
2. Medic Station, slowly recovery for a large area, or instant recovery when nearby;
3. Munition Station, providing ammo when nearby, also you can change weapons(class) here.
etc... even turrets may be possible.

I suggest those three buildings only work for the squad who build it, this will encourage team members work together more often.
If player want to heal or revive their teammate when in battle, make Medic Station generate a few medic packs or something periodically, these are consumables, squad member can only obtain one or two at a time.

More buildings depends on your imagination.

So squad member will work together to build structure, spawn at the same location, Medic Station gives squad member area recovery effect. The battle is more like territory vs territory, with more tactics involved.


..............................................................................................................................................

I really like the idea, It fits great whit,AOS gameplay. The good thing about this is,that people make strong fortifications,so you can make FOB's(forward operating bases) and teamplay will come back for a large part.

And add the commo-rose from BF2.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby scrdest » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:19 pm

Hmm, the upcoming C&D could actually look like the build marker thing. Sadly, it won't.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Th3blur22 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:44 pm

There should just be a dedicated marker you place on the map to show the general position of enemies, not the actual character. Maybe aim and spot also.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Zecora » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:27 am

Kugutsu wrote:1. Only squad leader can give building orders. He click on a building icon from building menu, then move his mouse over ground and find a place to put in down.


I love the idea of everyone following building orders - however I really do not think that pre-defined structures would be very cool. I like seeing different buildings, however slightly, every time I play AoS. What if instead of a structure made of blocks, it could be like the tent. It would take a certain amount of time to be "complete" after it is placed - team members must be close enough as if capturing a control point. People already build like crazy around the tent, which is usually in a random location needing minimal defenses. This would still give them incentive to build in a more strategic location, but it wouldn't be filling in the same frame every time: it would be freeform construction around the new tent in order to protect it. I can see however that there are often flaws in people's buildings: maybe there could just be blueprints available if you wanted to use them to aid in team building efforts. Players could even create their own blueprints, which might be extra useful for clans.

Markers would be awesome. It would also be nice to be able to place markers from the map, not sure if someone said that already :D. I would think that marker placement should also send an automatic chat message, otherwise putting a marker on the intel when it is under attack would be useless if it isn't in view!

The one things I really, really want, whether it is visual markers or just voice commands, is the ability to map commands to a single keypress! I used to play Ravenshield a lot and I got pretty good at using the voice menu, which required THREE keys to get a message out! This doesn't make any sense whatsoever - especially since there were about 25 completely useless commands in that game and 5 worthwhile ones ("Tango spotted" and "go go go!" :P). I'm gonna be saying "tango spotted" many, many times in the course of a match, so I should just be able to hit F1 while spraying bullets instead of floundering around with a menu.

I've always wanted to be able to include my grid location as a macro in chat, but visual markers would basically make this obsolete.

Another thought: it would be nice to have better logic for where things are displayed on the small radar. Currently things seem to get stuck in the corner for a wide range of angles, which sucks when the enemy tent is concealing their intel :) If it was calculated as a projection from a circular radar, markers/such would only appear in the corner if they were actually at a 45 degree angle to you.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby MrChucklez » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:07 am

I guess you would have to make it so that only visible enemy could be spotted.

Also, love all the ideas. Reviving must take a long time though. Otherwise, it would be overpowered.
Plus, how would this work with wave respawns?
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Gorman » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:44 pm

I have 2 main concerns about squads;
1. Squad leader should not be more powerful/gain more bonuses than squad members. Their only 'special role' is to administer the group (add players, remove players)
2. Squads should not gain special or artificial benefits (squad streaks, bonus grenades, can build autoturrets, etc). The benefit of being in a squad is that you are in a squad. Small things like different coloured icons on map or order icons are OK, but nothing stupid like free airstrikes or squad killstreaks.

Tek2 wrote:
Gorman wrote:Squad leader could have options to allow players to only create certain types of markers (eg only allowed to create enemy spotted markers, and not build/attack/move orders).

I think this kind of stuff would overcomplicate AoS while not giving enough good content.

I agree.

It is always hard to strike a balance between simplicity and control. I guess in this case things got too complex.

After all, a squad leader can just say "if you keep spamming build orders I'll kick you"
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Tai » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:45 am

Gorman wrote:I have 2 main concerns about squads;
1. Squad leader should not be more powerful/gain more bonuses than squad members. Their only 'special role' is to administer the group (add players, remove players)
2. Squads should not gain special or artificial benefits (squad streaks, bonus grenades, can build autoturrets, etc). The benefit of being in a squad is that you are in a squad. Small things like different coloured icons on map or order icons are OK, but nothing stupid like free airstrikes or squad killstreaks.


Couldn't agree more. Basically all I'd like to see is the Pyspades version of squads being implemented as a standard.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Maxxis » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:06 am

I support the squad idea, but I don't support the team-supplies idea.
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Re: Official Team/Squad Discussion

Postby Tek2 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:21 am

TheGeekZeke101 wrote:
Tek2 wrote:
TheGeekZeke101 wrote:If squads were implemented I would want:

-Spotting

Spotting would be a cool feature. The idea you could see someone through your map using team mates would be a neat idea. Would make the maps more useful.

How would you make it so that it couldn't be abused to find hidden enemies?


They wouldn't be hidden then. Spotting is when you or a team mate looks at an enemy and their location then becomes visible on the map.

Well I was thinking about a scenario where you are a little like
"Hmmm there's propably an enemy there, but I can't clearly see him as he blends to the background. Maybe I should try spotting him so I can see him."
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