Rebalance clips

[CommandoDude]

The Submachine gun has 4 clips to the Rifle's 5, despite the fact that the rifle doesn't need nearly as much ammunition to kill other players (and is accurate at all ranges, unlike the SMG).

At least give the SMG 30 more bullets, maybe even 60, considering how fast ammo gets depleted trying to fight at mid-long range. The Rifle could be decreased by 10.

[Yakkers]

Keep in mind though that each rifle mag holds a whole lot less than the SMG. Seeing as the rifle can take up to three shots for a kill, I think it's pretty well balanced. Even then, I would still ike to see the SMG bumped to 5 and the rifle down to 4 though.

Also, they're called magazines :3

[CommandoDude]

Less rifle ammo is expended due to inaccuracy however. Also, it takes much more ammo to kill an enemy, especially if you don't get a shot in the head hitbox.

Functionally, prolonged combat with a rifle is extremely easy. An SMG will very quickly run out of ammo, and cuts very close even on maps where kill streaks give you a full recover.'

Also, a clip is the same as a magazine.

[Yakkers]

A clip is when the whole apparatus moves throughout the firearm with the bullets, and a magazine is when it itself stays put and feeds ammo into the gun with spring tension.

For example, a Mauser or M1 Garand uses clips, and M16's amd glocks use magazines.

[Gorman]

Semi
Mag Size: 10
Default Ammo: 50
DHead: 100
DTorso: 49
DLimbs: 33
Potential kills per Mag: 10
Total potential kills: 60
Time per kill: 0.5

SMG
Mag Size: 30
Default Ammo: 120
DHead: 75
DTorso: 24
DLimbs: 16
Potential kills per Mag: 15
Total potential kills: 50
Time per kill: 0.2

SMG trades faster kills and more kills per mag for slightly less ammo. If the default ammo was increased to 150 then SMG would have 65 total potential kills, and still be faster and have more kills per mag.

I think the trade off is fair.

[rambo]

Make this server side.

[Gorman]

Make this server side.

Just going to point out that you can already do this as a pyspades script if you want.
This in effect it is already serverside - for pyspades.

(check weapons.py)

[Coffee]

Leave the weapons alone, damn. They are fine the way they don't, don't screw with them. If I had to say something about the weapons, if I just had to, I would say the the shotty is still OP at long distance. That's it.

[CommandoDude]

I think the trade off is fair.

According to what? Math? That is basically just assuming you can hit with every bullet possible. Which can't be done.

For every 1 bullet you can hit the enemy with, 2 or even 3 will miss, even if you are scoped and pointing the gun right at their head. (Unless you're really close).

Leave the weapons alone, damn. They are fine the way they are, don't screw with them.

Just like how they were fine back when the SMG couldn't hit anything that wasn't right in front of its face? Or when the shotgun couldn't kill anything in 1 shot no matter how close you got?

When are people going to stop whining about how the weapons are "fine"? The nerfphobia on this board is reminiscent of WoW.

[Gorman]

I think the trade off is fair.

According to what? Math? That is basically just assuming you can hit with every bullet possible. Which can't be done.

For every 1 bullet you can hit the enemy with, 2 or even 3 will miss, even if you are scoped and pointing the gun right at their head. (Unless you're really close).

Um... Well if you want to blatantly disregard logic/maths then you can derive everything.

Well if you use your logic and we assume only 50-33% accuracy then you can just divide the numbers if you want, but you will come up with pretty much the same result (with 50-33% less kills!).

No matter how you try to pervert the logic, numbers don't lie.

If you consider just one aspect of a gun you can really make some perverse reasoning - rifle needs its damage nerfed to the same as shotgun, shotgun need the same mag size as SMG, SMG needs the same shot delay as rifle.
Does that make sense? It shouldn't, then again neither is giving SMG more clips and ignoring that it has 2.5x as much ammo as the rifle is just as crazy.

Do not isolate one aspect - ever.

[Tek2]

The reason smg runs out of ammo so fast is that it's more beneficial to "waste" ammo compared to other weapons.
You can quickly tear a wall down with smg, but with rifle it would take ages and you would be better off doing something else.
Also with smg you get an easier kill if you spam a little instead of trying to get a kill with 2 bullets.
Of course smg is less accurate and has a nice recoil which waste ammo nicely.

[CommandoDude]

I think the trade off is fair.

According to what? Math? That is basically just assuming you can hit with every bullet possible. Which can't be done.

For every 1 bullet you can hit the enemy with, 2 or even 3 will miss, even if you are scoped and pointing the gun right at their head. (Unless you're really close).

Um... Well if you want to blatantly disregard logic/maths then you can derive everything.

Well if you use your logic and we assume only 50-33% accuracy then you can just divide the numbers if you want, but you will come up with pretty much the same result (with 50-33% less kills!).

No matter how you try to pervert the logic, numbers don't lie.

If you consider just one aspect of a gun you can really make some perverse reasoning - rifle needs its damage nerfed to the same as shotgun, shotgun need the same mag size as SMG, SMG needs the same shot delay as rifle.
Does that make sense? It shouldn't, then again neither is giving SMG more clips and ignoring that it has 2.5x as much ammo as the rifle is just as crazy.

Do not isolate one aspect - ever.

You have an outrageously high to-hit calculation.

15 kills per mag is simply impossible.

In fact, even being super frugal with ammunition, its difficult to get 10 kills with all the mags, not just one. Even assuming a close quarters map where you can reliably hit with every single bullet, 1 mag will never net more than 10 kills, and probably not even 5.

A rifle can reliably say "1 shot 1 kill" since a headshot with a rifle is very easy. It takes 2 headshots with an SMG for 1 kill, and thats with inaccuracy.

[Build]

Um... Well if you want to blatantly disregard logic/maths then you can derive everything.

Thats called a variable.

Another clip/mag for the smg seems reasonable. Especially considering most people will die before they ever get to use it. Not to mention that an smg user is also easier to find on the minimap then either other gun.

In this case I'd say Practicality beats Theory.

(Btw Didn't most people say the Smg was for rookies? Smg spammers anyone?)

[CommandoDude]

(Btw Didn't most people say the Smg was for rookies? Smg spammers anyone?)

Even keeping to 1-2 bullet bursts, ammo runs out pretty quick.

[Gorman]

You have an outrageously high to-hit calculation.

15 kills per mag is simply impossible.

In fact, even being super frugal with ammunition, its difficult to get 10 kills with all the mags, not just one. Even assuming a close quarters map where you can reliably hit with every single bullet, 1 mag will never net more than 10 kills, and probably not even 5.

A rifle can reliably say "1 shot 1 kill" since a headshot with a rifle is very easy. It takes 2 headshots with an SMG for 1 kill, and thats with inaccuracy.

I don't understand, you clam 100% accuracy with semi and yet claim that even when you try your best your accuracy with the SMG is only 66%?

Previously by calculating equal hit ratios I showed that SMG has only marginally less kills while reloading less and shooting faster (ie it can make more kills per second compared to rifle, as a trade for having slightly less kills/total ammo).

Now you attempt to be rigging the variables claiming that SMG is by nature extremely inaccurate? How about we cut to the chase and you tell me that SMG is only 1% accurate and therefore should have at least 200 times the ammo of the semi.

Please, you are being ridiculous.

Um... Well if you want to blatantly disregard logic/maths then you can derive everything.

Thats called a variable.

Another clip/mag for the smg seems reasonable. Especially considering most people will die before they ever get to use it. Not to mention that an smg user is also easier to find on the minimap then either other gun.

In this case I'd say Practicality beats Theory.

(Btw Didn't most people say the Smg was for rookies? Smg spammers anyone?)

Actually disregarding logic is called "being illogical", I am not sure what you are trying to say about variables, but I can assure you that his disregard for logic is a constant.

So your premises are:
- SMG users die before they run out of ammo
- SMG users are easier to find on the map
And your conclusion is:
- SMG needs more ammo

I am sorry, but I am having serious problems following your chain of thought.

Please let us consider the rate of kills too;
SMG: 5 kills per second
Semi: 2 kills per second
SMG time for full kills: 10 seconds / 50 kills + 7.5 seconds
Semi time for full kills: 30 seconds / 60 kills + 12.5 seonds

You propose raising the time for full kills to;
13 seconds / 60 kills + 10 seconds
I don't think it is fair that SMG be allowed to kill more than twice as fast as the semi, plus retaining its ability to destroy blocks, suppress, and kill more and faster without as many reloads.