Working buildings!

[Oswaldino]

Hello everyone.
Before you start reading I should tell that my english is a bit bad by now, so tell me if i mistaked somewhere.
Well, didnt you think that some complex buildings should be working?
I mean some kind of making it active. Let me explain it on a plan:
1.Make a complex and right-shaped building.
2.make a "picture" of blocks sized 5x5
3.wait some time(10-60 seconds)
4.Congrats, get your working building!

the working building should allow players not only to hide, but to get advanced weapons, ammo, maybe even resources/schematics to make other buildings.
Examples:

1.Headquarters
Needed shape: 2-floored building 10x10 square and 3 blocks height of each floor with at least 1 door and 1 window on the 2nd floor
Used for: center of respawn, enemies cannot enter it, but can easily shoot you down through windows and holes made by explosions.
Issues: cannot be repaired, cannot be dug,damage got only from explosions and bullets(Lets name it Antigrief).

2.The bunker
Needed shape:a hole 3 blocks deep covered with 2 layers of blocks and 5x5 square with an exit.
Used for: Safe place from grenades, bomb strikes and sappers.
Issues: Antigrief extra(0 damage from bullets, halfed damage from explosions), can be used by enemies, has only 1 exit.

3.The Artillery Cannon.
Needed shape: column 10 blocks height in the center, a platform 5 blocks square below it, a 3x3x3 cube on the rught part of the platform.
Used for: Alternative for bomb strikes - shoots explosive blocks that damage the terrain a bit more than a regular grenade and spreads 6 "shrapnel" blocks randomly around it.
Issues: Slow fire rate(1 shot per 30 seconds), needs recharging by placing the 3d-crosses close to the cannon, turn slowly, Antigrief extra. If damaged needs repairs. Needs a player to shoot it. The shell should be launched at about 45 degrees to shoot it at 100 blocks distance.

4.The Hangar + the runway.
Needed shape: an empty box sized 15x10x10(height) with a big door at the 10-side, requires the runway near it.
Runway - a straight open road 5x30 near hangar.
Used for: Bomb striking, a potential for the future vehicles. Bomb strikes reload alike cannon, but the recharge crosses should be placed laterally the hangar entrance in the number of 10, more allowed.
Issues: The runway - Antigrief extra, if damaged more than 5% of the runway - needs repairs, else wont work, if the runway is blocked by a 3x3 wall or some bumps requires cleaning with showels or something else.
The Hangar: Antigrief, will not provide the bomb strike if has no ammo left.

5.The warehouse.
Needed shape: Alike hangar, but needs some block "boxes" that fill it(20 blocks inside at least).
Used for: Ammo recharge, can be placed near hangars and cannons to slowly, but automatically provide them with the "recharge crosses".
Issues: Antigrief, every time a player recharges ammo at it or a hangar or cannon gets resupplied by it - the hangar uses one of it's box blocks, when fully empty will not work, may be restocked.

6.Radar/Damper
Needed shape: Alike cannon but needs another 5x5 platform at the height of 7.
Used for: enemies in the radius of 100 or 50 will get a random picture on their maps, if outside the radar they will get a 25-50 square of random blocks around the radar placement on their map, so you can hide your building with it.
Is used as a radar will show enemies 50 blocks around it, no matter they are underground or on the surface.
Issues: Antigrief, needs the antennae to be always intact.

7.The Generator.
Needed shape: Imagine it.
Used for: optional building that may be required to activate the built working buildings.
There are 2 ways to make it:
Building a generator will make a 100-block radius active zone in which the working buildings will work.

The generator requires wires of the same colour it has on it's output that is on it's random side and maked as a red cross with a random block center. to make a wire you need to pick it's colour and lead it to the needed building.

Issues: Antigrief extra.

8.the Clinic.
Needed shape: Imagine it.
Used for: just healing, maybe some random buff after 5th healing(slower/faster walk speed, additional 10HP, reduced 10HP, Immunity to explosions etc till the end of the round)
Issues: Antigrief, but more sensitive to explosions, can be used by enemies if coloured in the enemy team's colour partically.


So this is all I've got in my head now about buildings.
I hope this will ever be released, mostly because this will make the game more interesting letting not only to use the dig-and-hit tactics, but also to make real bases that will not be dug down by some griefer and also be useful.

[Oswaldino]

Any dicussions?

[XxsnipahxX]

Already been suggested a couple times. But It should have a kill limit for the person making it. Not like a killstreak, but certain number of kills, like so about 30 to start making these bunker types.

[CalenLoki]

I like the idea of building working stuff with blocks, but instead of building whole thing, I'd rather ask players to build small structures inside free-shaped places.

So instead of whole HQ, you build 5x5 platform of your team's colour with red cross in the middle - it spawns tent (forward operation base). Tent only store supplies. All other things only works within 21x21x21 cube around the tent.

To respawn players, you need to build several "hospital beds" (White, T-shaped, 3-long, 2-high, 1-wide). Players spawn there with -100hp and are healed 10hp per second (20s to get 100hp, first 11s you're immobile and defenceless). You can also use hospital beds to heal during combat (just jump there and wait)

You need to supply your FOB so it can heal/spawn/rearm - there are three ways to do that:
-by connecting it with your main base with wire (like your generator suggestion)
-by bringing supply crates from main base (small indicator of supplies that appear when you visit main tent, nothing fancy)
-ask for supply drop: create on parachute appear somewhere randomly around you (in the air, falling), and anyone can destroy it (with boom) or pick it up. You can do it every few minutes. Gives you the same small indicator of supplies.

Storing resources in visual form would be great too - like you build 2x1x1 box with green colour and air above, and it turns into crate model when someone resupply your base, and disappear when FOB resource get's used. Crates explode like nades when destroyed.

Your radar idea is nice.

Something akin to cannon could be done, but with addition of grenade launcher (already confirmed) I don't think it's needed

Airfield as something hard to build and maintain might be nice addition

I don't like idea of bunker - you can make it traditional way.

[Oswaldino]

Already been suggested a couple times. But It should have a kill limit for the person making it. Not like a killstreak, but certain number of kills, like so about 30 to start making these bunker types.

1.Not in the NOT THE SUGGEST LIST => I can suggest that.
2.Buildings are destroyable so even a noob can come to hardly-built radar or cannon and destroy a cannon that costed 30 kills.

CalenLoki
I think that the building should be hard.
Look, if it is easy to build you can spam the battlefield with radars, bunkers, cannons etc very easily. But if you have to build everything and wait for it to get ready this adds some kind of defensive part - you have to protect building from everyone until they got built.

1 more thing - the bunkers also should have a DOOR. it automatically opens if someone is close to it. The bunker is some kind of a fortified hole that cannot be dug, but yet you can throw a grenade inside and smoke everyone out and/or destroy a bunker.

Supply crates is an option, but firstly the supply crates shoul be added into the game. To my mind the player should give blocks to the building to make it work.

Cannon is an artillery, grenade launcher is the weapon for a player. Cannon shoot in parabola and can cover LARGE distances not counting with the walls, mountains etc.

[CalenLoki]

Actually, my suggestion wasn't about making it easier, just that you build usable stuff by small parts, rather than whole building at once.
example: in your suggestion HQ require one building to create ready fully operational spawn point.
in my suggestion you need to build HQ tent first, then several beds (so more than one player can spawn at the same time), than some place to store supplies, than any addition you like (radars, artillery, ect.)
My suggestion don't exclude building time - it can still take some time to change created shape into device.
Bases require maintaining, so spamming without supplying would be pointless
Additional feature to prevent spamming could be impossibility to build new base within fog range from another base (~100m)

Another thing I don't like about your suggestion is that it creates some strange artificial rules, like indestructible blocks (bunkers), invisible walls preventing players from entering certain areas (HQ) and stuff like that (as opposition of my idea, where you just create simple entity (similar to current tent) that work somehow).

Supplying buildings with blocks is bad idea because:
-blocks are cheap - you can get them anywhere, fast and safe. No matter if you're close of far away from main base. You'd need really a lot of them.
-digging blocks for resources would make maps disappear even faster than now
-it makes no sense from realism (and thus it's unintuitive for new players), unless you want to portrait factories (on the frontlines??)
As opposition, why my option of supplying is better:
-It require maintaining supply routes, either by building transmission lines, safe roads for carriers or safe dropping zone. So it allows another level of competition between teams: defending and sabotaging enemy supplies.
-It's realistic
-It encourage building things like bridges

Your example of cannon shoot at fog range:
"The shell should be launched at about 45 degrees to shoot it at 100 blocks distance."
Watch demonstration vid of new RPG - quite the same range. Only difference is mentioned bigger explosion.

[lolpwned23]

A very good idea, probably not going to be added to soon though... probably will be added around .77-.85 update

[ChaosTLW]

1.Not in the NOT THE SUGGEST LIST => I can suggest that.

The DNSL is not a ULTIMATE LIST OF EVERYTHING EVER SUGGESTED ON THE UNIVERSE OMG.
If you end up finding other suggestions on the subject, THEN DO NOT SUGGEST IT, becaust it was already suggested, EVEN IF IT IS NOT IN THE DNSL.
Anyway, you can still suggest things that ARE in the DNSL, but you better write down a fuckin A+++ STAR essay on the subject, or you will get nothing but "Read the DNSL" as responses.

[lolpwned23]

Also please add a poll to this

[Eagle7]

You get it!

[ChaosTLW]

You get it!

I get that you don't want, what I don't get is why you don't.
Seriously, why? Posting a rude .gif makes you look like a retard with a tiny peenis instead of teh_c00l_guy_1337_40cm_d1ck

DISCLAIMER: I do not like the suggestion, but it is just that you're simply being rude.

[Eagle7]

I will tell you why...

All the people will start building and building and building and so on.

They will not focus on killing.

This game is a mix of building and killing balanced.

Right now it is on killing.

With this it will turn into building only and not make it a mix.

Get it now?

[Oswaldino]

CalenLoki
Now I got your idea, but yet look - building should be a combination of hard work and casual use, as because we can get the Eagle7's problem - too much building. Blocks can be a part of supplying. For example lets dicuss another system:

Each team has it's own supply-meter. To fill it you need to kill or wait for some time.
What happens if the supply-meter fills up?
1.All teammates can activate more additional building(build a building -> place it's mark in the middle ->stand on it until it gets activated)
2.The warehouses get refilled with crates,ammo,etc.
3.supply crates droped(?) if you pick them up your warehouses will be partially restocked.

Look at the Antigrief system - it just doesnt let to DIG the buildings, you still can shoot it down or explode. The Antigrief extra just makes sure that the building will not be shot down with a rifle(did you at least hear that real artillery cannons were destroyed using a rifle? I didnt.) and need to be destroyed with a grenade or grenade launcher.

Invisible walls is a bad idea, yes. But this is discussable!
As an option the HQ can just have doors or something else because else this will be turned into the spawnkilling massacre. Also there should be an option of spawning as usual or in the HQ.

About the grenade launchers - can you give me a link to it?
Youtube shows only some scholar playing LiKe 4 Pr0.
Also the artillery cannons can cover larger distances, even half of the map with an issue of low accuracy and a big chance to miss so players wont just make the artillery base at the edge of the map and just destroy the foe's base.

Eagle7
Building for killing, building for getting supply boxes...this will just make the game more different, not only simple kill->make a wall -> kill more and get killed.
Also, as an answer to your gif - http://z0r.de/2719

[CalenLoki]

Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QINwCaJgX4o
And discussion (nothing interesting - just "oh wow!" and "ooh nooe!"
http://ace-spades.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=10517

It also show how I want entities to work - something like that MG: place by building certain shape from blocks (or just by choosing from list of available buildings) and you have custom model for beds, crates, mortars and stuff.

I'm glad you come up with new ideas, but my nature force me to point out flaws:
-killing already has it's purpose, and you can't win without killing. I don't see any reason why should we encourage it any more
-waiting some time is passive action, and we want players to do something, like defending, attacking, moving forward, transporting something to the front lines.

While destroying cannon with rifle IRL is really unlikely (if you shoot at durable parts like barrel - you can still destroy trigger mechanism for example) it would be good to force players to build anti-bullet protection around their cannons (or just place it in deep trench)


Dear Eagle7, your pretty images make me wonder if number next to your name indicate your age.
You can't win that game without killing - if they focus on building, they just die and enemy will capture/raze their creations. Then they'll have to send some (large) part of their team to fight, or they'll loose.
Nobody mentioned any building like "sentry turret" that could fight for builders - all of them are there only to help killing enemies.
And thus mentioned "mix of killing and building".

[Oswaldino]

CalenLoki
I said about the kill encouraging only due to eagle7, so dont look at it too much.
About passive action - it may be not so passive.
2 ways to make it usable:
1.The building is built and needs to be captured. The more players capture it - the faster will be the process, so 1 player will do it in 30 seconds-60 seconds, a team of 5 players will do it in 5-10 seconds and everybody will get points.

2.The building is built but needs finishing, this means bed placing, cannoneer seat placement, "supply crate" making from blocks, marking the wire outputs for the generator, making additional antennae for the radar/damper. The players have about 45 seconds until everything must be finished.