What makes a good 2d game? (suggest-me-something thread)

[Stiivais]

So, i have recently decided to make a 2d game, but i would like to have some input about video games from you guys, since i dont want to make a game, which is boring or simply bad. The technology i am going to use is all acquired, but i would like your opinion on the game mechanics, atmosphere and desired features.

So, to be short, What does make a good 2d, top-down survival game?
Below are my ideas, but i want to see yours (that's why i made this post). So tell me, what would you like to see in your "perfect" survival indie game, ideas, wishes and things that would set a game apart from others...

Premise: My ideas so far revolve around post apocalyptic environments, countryside and small cities of northern europe. The streets of cities would mostly be empty, with some occasional damaged cars obstructing the way. The places would be randomly generated, with pre-defined set pieces (like streets and buildings with random interiors) placed in random fashion, allowing for many looting options while keeping both replay values and replayability tolerable. Countryside places with lower "population" should also be present, places like farmhouses and mills. Things like windows and doors would be destructible, maybe even walls (not sure about making multi story structures, with many floors and stuff).

Characters/NPCs: So far i have thought of making the NPCs be rather shaken survivors, some ex-policemen, but no soldiers from army, to make the player believe that they really are stranded. There would be NPCs which could sell player items, give quests and some, which player could recruit (squad of 4?), along with squads who have random objectives and roam the game world freely (like in Stalker).
Zombies would be quite simple humans, which dont sprint, but are capable of "power walking", with occasional exceptions. Maybe some tank-types.

Equipment: No power/nano armor, just a pistol and an AK (examples), which degrade over time. You reload magazines, not bullets, so when you reload, you discard remaining bullets in clip. Maybe some weapon modifications, like flashlights. Players could have inventory with 8 or 12 slots: small items (food, bandage, clip) - 1 slot, medium items (medikit, machete, pistol) - 2 slots, big items (smg, shotgun) - 3 slots, large items (rifles) - 4 slots. Containers like trunks of vehicles and boxes available. Trading of items between NPCs also present.

Vehicles: Maybe some cars, trucks, maybe a van or two, all requiring fuel and repairs, both of which are scarce.

Game logics: You don't get experience or skill points, all there is, is a little bar tagged "experience", which tells you how far along the career route a NPC (or you) has progressed. When you start a game, you choose a profession (policeman, medic, etc.) which sets skills available to you and your efficiency with different items (accuracy for policeman, first aid for medic). Killing zombies doesn't give you cash, doing quests does. While there may be a quest, where you get money for clearing area from the undead, shooting them randomly is a waste of ammo.

Extra features: So far, i have thought that there would be a possibility of adding a multiplayer compatibility. But if so, then i would have to start making the game in a completely different way, since logics would be different, requiring a great deal of extra work. Is multiplayer really necessary?

So, these are my ideas.
If you have anything to add, feel free to do so.
Any articles about how to make a good game (mechanics and plot wise), send 'em links here...
I will appreciate any help i can get.

[RonPaul]

Sounds nice, But are we going to use Zombies. I mean some many games are based on Zombies. How about something like this for the main character's intro to the story: Main Character-"We saw it coming, hell they told us it was just a flu.. People where screaming, running, dieing. Something was in them..... Everyone was gone. Only few remainders around.. The people who are still living are just trying to kill, loot, & rape everyone they encounter. I need to find who did this..Who created this horrible disease.... & Why would they want this horrible world." *RADIO SIGNAL* (Clicks activate)Unknown Voice-Hello? Any survivors please meet me at Clouisville, In the Harbor district.. Please I'm begging you! I know who did this & I just need the time! Hello! ANYONE!!!............."*SIGNAL LOST* Main Character-"Lets hope 400 rounds can last till Clouisville.."......(TITLE APPEARS): Just an idea. I know it sounds stupid but you know if you can pull of some interesting story the player is shown before he starts there brings a very curious atmosphere. Something many people enjoy in a game. Either way good luck with your game..

[EstonianSniper]

I agree with RonPaul. Having a interesting storyline is a necessity. I think Multiplayer could be a extra patch or later realese. Because, It will make it much more fun. But, It will take loads of time to implement. So, I understand. Maybe basic building. Barricading and that sorta stuff. About random generation. Its all well and good. Maybe you could gave games seeds like minecraft. But, Make sure the engine does stuff in a alright manner. Instead of very ugly looking stuff. Also, Good texture work is a requirement. And, Get rif of nearly all the bugs. Include a save feature. Make sure to take youre time.

[Stiivais]

Sounds nice, But are we going to use Zombies. I mean some many games are based on Zombies. How about something like this for the main character's intro to the story: Main Character-"We saw it coming, hell they told us it was just a flu.. People where screaming, running, dieing. Something was in them..... Everyone was gone. Only few remainders around.. The people who are still living are just trying to kill, loot, & rape everyone they encounter. I need to find who did this..Who created this horrible disease.... & Why would they want this horrible world." *RADIO SIGNAL* (Clicks activate)Unknown Voice-Hello? Any survivors please meet me at Clouisville, In the Harbor district.. Please I'm begging you! I know who did this & I just need the time! Hello! ANYONE!!!............."*SIGNAL LOST* Main Character-"Lets hope 400 rounds can last till Clouisville.."......(TITLE APPEARS): Just an idea. I know it sounds stupid but you know if you can pull of some interesting story the player is shown before he starts there brings a very curious atmosphere. Something many people enjoy in a game. Either way good luck with your game..

Well, zombies aren't the hardest thing to program, since they don't use cover, don't use vehicles/weapons and are a good foe in most games. I was thinking about making them evolve over time and join into groups, so that they roam in hordes (like project zomboid).
As for the scenario and the way the plot unfolds, i was thinking to follow the way Last Stand 3: Union City (flash game, but first example i thought of) plays out. You are clueless of what is going on at start, and gain knowledge of your surroundings by speaking with fellow humans.
Btw, title? What should it be? :/

I agree with RonPaul. Having a interesting storyline is a necessity. I think Multiplayer could be a extra patch or later realese. Because, It will make it much more fun. But, It will take loads of time to implement. So, I understand. Maybe basic building. Barricading and that sorta stuff. About random generation. Its all well and good. Maybe you could gave games seeds like minecraft. But, Make sure the engine does stuff in a alright manner. Instead of very ugly looking stuff. Also, Good texture work is a requirement. And, Get rif of nearly all the bugs. Include a save feature. Make sure to take youre time.

Okay, but i will work on single-player first. Generation, inventory etc. It's better to have an unfinished game, than no game at all (mostly due to horrors of netcode and desync), right? Dont know about seeds, because i have been thinking about variables that describe the world, so NO two worlds are the same. Barricading will propably make it, maybe even building. But the game will look nice, powered by Directx9, with pixel shader effects and all that, saving will also be included :D. And before anyone flames me and says that i have to switch to OpenGL, i can't.
Also, do you guys know any good spriters? Btw, should the game be 2d, or 2.5d, although 2.5d would look better, the amount of work required for sprite sheets would take about 4x more time than a 2d version.

I just want to have a design document done, so i know what to do, and HOW to do it. ^^

[bov930527]

I'm sorry but, what is 2,5 d?

Anyways, I would suggest for the title to have some kind of a connection to the story line, so that when you play the game it comes sort of a revelation as to why the game is called the way it is. I allways enjoy that in games.
For the zombies I would suggest that they evolve into something. Or perhaps you could have animals get the decease and evolve into something, like wolves would evolve into those wall-climbing monsters from Resident Evil movies. So the player gets the idea that the game is actually progressing through time when he/she plays it. It would be a cool way to do it, or at elast I think so. But in the end, it's your game and I belive that no matter what anyone says on this thread you should consider first what is it that you want in this game. Even if you're going to make it profitable, the people will buy it if you will do it the honest way. Which is not to ask people for what they want, but rather do a game that you yourself belive you would play.

Just my 0,02$.

[Stiivais]

I'm sorry but, what is 2,5 d?

Anyways, I would suggest for the title to have some kind of a connection to the story line, so that when you play the game it comes sort of a revelation as to why the game is called the way it is. I allways enjoy that in games.
For the zombies I would suggest that they evolve into something. Or perhaps you could have animals get the decease and evolve into something, like wolves would evolve into those wall-climbing monsters from Resident Evil movies. So the player gets the idea that the game is actually progressing through time when he/she plays it. It would be a cool way to do it, or at elast I think so. But in the end, it's your game and I belive that no matter what anyone says on this thread you should consider first what is it that you want in this game. Even if you're going to make it profitable, the people will buy it if you will do it the honest way. Which is not to ask people for what they want, but rather do a game that you yourself belive you would play.

Just my 0,02$.

2,5d: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5D
My game will be more top down, or the camera will have about 10 degree angle.

About evolution, i was thinking about the zombies gaining ability to roam the gameworld in groups and maybe even attack human settlements and MAYBE evolve into something... Prolly the game will be free, at least in early stages.

But anyways, any more ideas? WHAT MAKES A GOOD AND IMMERSIVE FREE ROAM/SURVIVAL GAME?

[ThisFrickinSite]

i jsut want to say 1 thing since i dont have alot of time... make the sound track good if it has one :D

[USABxGUNSLINGER]

Customization, I'll say it again, customization.

You should be able to customize your characters looks, gender, etc, put different items on your vehicles and weapons, stuff like that. Maybe be able to make a "home base", or something, where you can store and put stuff, but make it so that it caters to every playstyle.

For example, I like to take the semi-stealthy way, running around on rooftops, and in alleyways, evading enemies. One might want to fight their way through them, and some might want to hide, place to place, and stuff like that. You'd need to make every way viable, and not have one way the "right", or the "quickest" way.

[Nanners]

This sounds interesting! I wish I could code an script my own game ;')! If it can be done, multiplayer would be cool. Make LAN, even world wide match making? Sounds really good though!

[darklord120]

Maybe a little RPG into it....like weapon making and upgrading and armour..maybe a workshop were you could customise your vehicle making it more powerful

[Stiivais]

okay, any New ideas other games dont have yet? Not that yours are bad or anything, but i already thought of making most of them as features.

what would you guys want to see in a really original gane, which would stand apart from others?

so far i have written around half of the level editor...

[USABxGUNSLINGER]

Hmm...maybe some kind of "moral" and "sanity" level. When you make a character, you give him a set "personality", and his actions affect how you can gain moral points, and lose sanity points. Such as, if your character is a "hero", in a somewhat loose term, he gains moral points by helping the living, and loses insanity points for not. This could work with different personalities, etc.

[Stiivais]

Hmm...maybe some kind of "moral" and "sanity" level. When you make a character, you give him a set "personality", and his actions affect how you can gain moral points, and lose sanity points. Such as, if your character is a "hero", in a somewhat loose term, he gains moral points by helping the living, and loses insanity points for not. This could work with different personalities, etc.

hmm, interesting...

Btw, what about map sizes? Is 32000x32000 pixels good enough, if 1024x768 is the size of screen?

[darklord120]

COULD HAVE A 2d SAFEHOUSE THAT CAN BE UPGRADED AND YOU CAN FIND SURVIVERS AND THEY CAN HELP YOU
MAYBE SPECIAL ZOMBIES

MUTANT-STRONG AND DOES LOT OF DAMAGE HEADSHOT KILLS ONLY
GHOSTS_ONLY KILLED BY LIGHT
NOVA-BOSS ZOMBIE...SPITS GAS
GRUNT-AVERAGE EVERYTHING
JUMPER-HARD TO SHOOT
JUGS-ZOMBIE JUGGERNAUT

[Fluttershy]

Well project zomboid does a lot of things right for survival
1) you cant win
2) limited visability
3)need for food (which apparently spoils now) and other necessitys

Well i havent played in awhile (and it was only the free demo when i did), but things that make survival games fun is a sense of helplessness and futility. Amnesia for example, is scary (or so ive been told) because you cant fight back. Thats what separates it from oh say, resident evil 5, where you just mow down black people [and a white guy] with your infinite Gatling gun (of course, that gun sucked, so they probably just used a machine gun or something).

A good survival game is going to be scary as duck, whether it be giant bears with chain saws or zombies. While minecraft "survival" claims to have survival, its all too easy to get a small wheat farm going and then essentially have infinite food. Hell, chopping trees down now give you a good source of apples, which holds off hunger. If youre constantly forced to go out and scavenge at night into new, unfamiliar territory, that really gives a sense of danger and survival.

Survival games should generally have yourself. Online especially makes it difficult to pull off correctly. People should be liabilitys, they should at any moment be able to save you from an attack, but also be able to eat your food, let a hoard of monsters in due to their stupidity, or betray you to better their own odds if companions are added.

As said before, you should really try to limit the amount of weapons people can get. Imagine fall out 3, but weapons are rare as is ammo. Bullets should be excruciatingly rare, and guns should be both rarer, and deteriorate with use. They should be a last resort weapon, and your focus should be mearly to escape from them. Project zomboid did another thing right in making them also a risky use weapon. Guns are loud, very so. In PZ, you use a gun, and half the neighborhoard comes to eat your face off. I like that.

I know this probably isnt very helpful with what you had in mind (especially since I wrote all this THEN read the OP), but it should give you an idea of what I like in survival games. Which is to say, a sense of survival.